Foo Dog Menuki

[Eric_P]

Hello Everyone,

Has anyone encountered any menuki similar to these? Or know a possible school, or time period? I believe these are depicting Foo dog faces and are made out of shakudo. Not sure if the picture do them justice but they are extremely detailed. 

Thanks,

Eric

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Eric,

As these are a bit tall for menuki and exactly the same (not what you expect for menuki), they may be tobacco pouch ornaments.

Grey

[Eric_P]

Thanks Grey,

Here are a few more pictures showing the size. They have slight differences to each other when you see them in person but I agree they were made to be identical. 

Thanks,

Eric

[Jake6500]

To me these look like tobacco pouch ornaments like Grey said. Both the size and round shape would suggest this is likely.

They may have been repurposed as menuki at a later date.

 

This would suggest to me that these might be Meiji Period works.

 

They are quite well made and there are some fine details there. Condition could be better however...

 

Some examples from the net:

 

 

 

 

Many artisans who made tosogu also dabbled in other ornamental metalwork such as these.

Edited Tuesday at 08:05 AM by Jake6500

[Eric_P]

Thank you both for the information. I had not thought about these being tobacco pouch ornaments. They need a very light cleaning they have dirt and grime in all the small details.

Thanks,

Eric

[Bugyotsuji]

Menuki pairs did not need to be exactly the same and many had deliberately differences.

A foo dog is a Chinese-English expression, but these do seem to be a kind of Shishi-Shikami cross. 
(Some similarities with this tsuba?)

 

 

 

[Winchester]

I like that tsuba, Piers. If you ever decide to sell it, please keep me in mind.

[Eric_P]

I do see some similarities with the form of the faces on the tsuba. I called them Foo dogs because I couldn't find another name for them. They do appear to have more of a lion like appearance than foo dog. Thank you for the great feedback and the example tsuba.

Thanks,

Eric

[Eric_P]

Also some similarities in the form of the faces on these tsuba from this thread.

 oni tsuba - Tosogu - Nihonto Message Board https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/724-oni-tsuba/

Edited Tuesday at 05:48 PM by Eric_P

[Tcat]

They are demons, not dogs. The 'front-on' pose is classic, and these kinds of menuki are often made in identical pairs, in the same way that most tsubogasa style menuki are also made in identical pairs - its quite normal and proper. Probably late edo oni menuki, not repurposed pouch ornaments and not oversized for the application, just right for a fancy shin-shinto or Meiji look...

 

Heres an example similar design, yours are nicer..

 

[Bugyotsuji]

By the way, I have a Netsuke also reminiscent…

 

 

 

 

[Spartancrest]

     

Edited yesterday at 10:12 AM by Spartancrest

[Eric_P]

Thank you very much for all the responses and great examples and information given.

Eric

[Eric_P]

Dale do you own this tsuba? The small face on the tsuba is very similar to these menuki. 

Eric

[Spartancrest]

46 minutes ago, Eric_P said:

don't own this tsuba

 

[Grey Doffin]

I was thinking the original pictures were of ornaments mounted to the saya, not the tsuka. Knowing now that they are on the tsuka, I agree that these are proper menuki, not tobacco pouch ornaments. Grey

[Eric_P]

On a side note here is the kurikata on the same tanto. Quite interesting I think. Pretty well done although one of the tails is slightly damaged and pushed our of position. 

Eric

 

[Tcat]

Some further specification on this oni subject…
 

I think in this case they should be described as “biting lion heads” (獅噛). The theme was recently shared on the Met’s arms and armor page..I include a screenshot of the search term in google. 🦁 

[Eric_P]

Thank you very much Alex. I think you hit the nail on the head. 

Eric

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Agreed. As I suggested earlier above, a Shikami.

 

*Be careful not to say 'Shigami' or 'Shishikami/Shishigami', despite how the kanji look; they have totally different meanings. Don't ask, I've been there...

 

(But it does have elements of shishi too.)