Tanto marketed as Pilot Hara-kiri dagger

[John C]

Another from this seller:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/336129368396?itmmeta=01K3EH7GK82AS0AP4DV8YCGPFB&hash=item4e42df214c:g:EqEAAeSwhOZooTnD

 

Note the lack of patina on the saya and the crudely chiseled "Japan" on the blade.

 

John C.

[Rawa]

This seller is pushing like 95% of fakes claiming that he tries to help some collector...

[The Blacksmith]

Was there ever such a thing as a 'kamikazi tanto'?  I have seen lots of them around for sale. I have also read quite abit about the Kamikazi corps, but have never read anything about them being given such a dagger. Also, the strength and strain of holding a plummeting aircraft while trying desperately to hit a dificult moving target under fire, would have been enormous, so forget committing seppuku at the same time. Any thoughts...............................?

[Rawa]

Its not about tanto to commit seppuku while doing kamikaze attack. It was a part of "brain washing". Those pilots needed to be convinced enough that their sacrifice is more important then their life. That dying that way is a greatest way. It's like symbol of commitment to die.

3 pages from Fuller & Gregory on subject. Look on plate 162 [wrist cord]

[John C]

2 hours ago, The Blacksmith said:

Any thoughts.

Russ:

I have been researching this for quite some time and have started a paper on the subject. 
After reading 6 or 7 books written by former kamikaze pilots or their family members, studying references (including the one above), and reading the kamikaze pilot's manual (the parts available in english), I'm very certain the issue of kamikaze pilots using a dagger for seppuku is a myth. In addition, the only picture of a presentation I have found so far is of a kaiten sailor receiving a tanto. You are correct in your assessment that kamikaze pilots would have been too busy to commit seppuku. Their radio communications were spotty at best. To overcome this, many were given telegraph keys strapped to their left thigh so they could report which ship it was they were about to attack. Additionally, the manual tells them to ensure they keep their eyes open until the moment of impact. This was to overcome the tendency to pull up on the stick when their eyes were closed, thereby missing the target. Lastly, the tanto were kept on a lanyard hung around the neck. I have not found a single picture where you can see the tanto. Presumeably, they were being worn under the clothing making them hard to reach. Certainly, committing any form of seppuku with a tanto under these conditions would have been nearly impossible.

As to whether or not they were issued, I would say most likely since all soldiers, sailors, and airmen carry knives of some sort. But for the purposes of seppuku? Not likely.

 

John C.

p.s. I have not solicited the members for pictures. So there may be some out there that show their tanto, I just haven't seen them.

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, John C said:

the only picture of a presentation I have found so far is of a kaiten sailor receiving a tanto

Eagerly awaiting your article, John!!!  The photo you reference is the only one I've seen, too.  My memory is poor, but I read once, about a commander gifting a special tanto to a pilot who was going out the next day.  In other words, the tanto was a special gift, not a generic gift, given to the masses.  I also read (again - someplace) they were to be used on themselves if they survived the crash into a ship; however I don't remember who said that, so that could be urban legend for all it's worth.

 

Here is Ohmura's page on the subject: Kamikazi Dagger

It is the source of the Keiten presentation.  He states that he knows no source that pilots were given such daggers.  Photos from the page (the text is clear when you click on each image):

[The Blacksmith]

@John C  Thank you for that John. I will look forward to perhaps reading that paper when it comes out! This is something that I have often wondered about. I have read a bit about this, but have never heard of such a dagger. Imagine a pilot of an Okha committing seppuku while trying to hit a warship! Highly improbable. Though they might have been carried as a symbol as you mentioned, a bit like a Gyoji at a yokozuna level sumo bout who carries a tanto, symbolising their willingness to die rather than fail. 

[The Blacksmith]

With regard to the picture in the post by marcin, I have read that before taking off on their final mission, the pilot would assemble all their belongings and usually with a note to their family, this would be complied at their sleeping place and togheter with their sword, these would be returned to the pilots family. Ryuji Nagatsuka in his book 'I was a Kamikaze' mentions this, and thet they were at home with his family when he finally returned home after failing in his mission. he never mentions anything about a dagger that I can remember.

[John C]

11 minutes ago, The Blacksmith said:

I was a Kamikaze'

Correct. That book is one of my references as well. Again, even without direct evidence of tanto presentation, I think it's possible. But as F&G note, finding kamikaze tanto is extremely rare - though that does indicate they were carried. Cutting away a parachute (which several pilots said they used as a toilet rather than a chute), cutting rigging, or used as a religious object, are all good reasons to carry a knife or tanto. Just not for seppuku.

 

John C.

[ChrisW]

Far as I know, it was always considered a dealers' fabrication.. much like the "landing forces sword".

[John C]

1 minute ago, ChrisW said:

a dealers' fabrication.

Agreed, which is what prompted my research. You would be surprised how many sellers, including "trusted" sellers who certainly know the truth, market their tanto as "suicide" or "hara-kiri", serving only to perpetuate the myth.

 

John C.

[John C]

At 304 dollars now. Looks like the carving goes into the mekugi neatly, as if the mekugi has never been removed.

 

John C.

[ChrisW]

Doesn't surprise me with how sloppy that is. Just good enough to fool the uninitiated. Which is honestly how most scams work, they filter out those that aren't gullible enough and find the perfect mark: somehow who is that gullible.

[The Blacksmith]

@John C  A book that I have on my desk but haven't read yet is Raymond Lamont-Brown's 'Kamikaze', published by Cassell. ISBN 0-304-35200-4 Should be interesting reading. There is a section on the kaiten, so perhaps something is mentioned in there.

I did see a short film some time back, I think perhaps from Duxford, where they had an Okha, the piloted bomb, and on the side of the cockpit were two brackets,  to hold the pilots sword.

 

[The Blacksmith]

6 hours ago, ChrisW said:

Doesn't surprise me with how sloppy that is. Just good enough to fool the uninitiated. Which is honestly how most scams work, they filter out those that aren't gullible enough and find the perfect mark: somehow who is that gullible.

 I have seen one Chris that appeared to little more than one of the cheap letter openers, with the cheap engraved and painted decoration filed off. I wish that I had downloaded the images of it now. yep, caveat emptor indeed!

[John C]

4 hours ago, The Blacksmith said:

Raymond Lamont-Brown's 'Kamikaze',

Thanks, Russ. I have that one as well. Of the hundreds of books on Kamikaze, I focused on those that were first had accounts (or at least family accounts). Most of the other, generic, books are based on those.

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

Shame this valuable discussion is happening in the Fake Swords section.

 

John, it would be great to have a pinned thread on this topic in the Military Swords section.  I suppose we could wait until your research and writing is completed.  When ever you think is best, brother.

[John C]

Thanks, Bruce. It's still in its infancy, however I do have the outline done (been tied up finishing another book edition). As to a separate thread, not sure. The broader category is still about fake auction listings. Maybe a general category on common sword myths?

John C.

[Brian]

Moving this to Military as its use for research outweighs the fake swords discussion.

[Rawa]

Looking like nice thread to follow.

[When Necessary]

I have a copy of 'The Last Zero Fighter' inscribed by the author to the family of one of the Japanese contributors.

The book contains a photo which corroborates that these daggers were presented to at least some suicide participants - like yourselves, I presume purely symbolically.

[Bruce Pennington]

Even this goes along with the Ohmara page saying these were given to kaiten pilots.

 

Great source, thank you for posting!

[Rawa]

Something around topic of daggers. From Onoda surrender ceremony:

"Onoda turned over his sword, a functioning Arisaka Type 99 rifle, 500 rounds of ammunition and several hand grenades, as well as a dagger his mother had given him in 1944 to kill himself if captured"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroo_Onoda

 

[When Necessary]

5 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Even this goes along with the Ohmara page saying these were given to kaiten pilots.

 

Great source, thank you for posting!

Thanks Bruce!

I should have shown more of the photos as the captions confirm pilots were also given these daggers.

 

The example shown was presented to a Kaiten submarine pilot but it states that Taigi-tai kamikaze pilot Toshimitsu Imaizumi (shown on the left in the group photo and on his own with a Zero) was also given a similar dagger.

[When Necessary]

Apparently, presentation was upon being (involuntarily) inducted into the Taigi-tai unit.

[John C]

3 hours ago, Rawa said:

a dagger

Interesting that his mother supposedly told him that. Obviously he didn't take her advice! Hakusui Inami was asked in an article (1953?) about suicide daggers. His answer was "Calling a knife a suicide knife is like calling a gun a suicide gun." His point was that the intended purpose of the tanto is not for seppuku, but as a utiltarian tool.

10 minutes ago, When Necessary said:

the captions confirm pilots were also given these daggers.

Its too bad none of the pictures actually show the pilots receiving (or even holding) the tanto at the time. But it would not surprise me if some units or unit commanders gave their troops tanto or other ceremonial items. There still is no evidence, however, these presentation daggers were for the purpose of "kamikaze suicide."

John C.

 

[When Necessary]

1 hour ago, John C said:

Interesting that his mother supposedly told him that. Obviously he didn't take her advice! Hakusui Inami was asked in an article (1953?) about suicide daggers. His answer was "Calling a knife a suicide knife is like calling a gun a suicide gun." His point was that the intended purpose of the tanto is not for seppuku, but as a utiltarian tool.

Its too bad none of the pictures actually show the pilots receiving (or even holding) the tanto at the time. But it would not surprise me if some units or unit commanders gave their troops tanto or other ceremonial items. There still is no evidence, however, these presentation daggers were for the purpose of "kamikaze suicide."

John C.

 

I agree John - but I'm convinced they symbolised a willingness to die/ ergo a form of suicide.

It's rather similar to the formalised seppuku ritual; in its later manifestation, the participant occasionally carried out the full act of disembowelment but it was far more common for the kaishakunin to strike at the same moment the dagger was placed in front of the condemned.

The acceptance of the dagger was taken as a formal commitment to die. 
I'm sure that the kamikaze, born from a perverted sense of 'bushido', would have interpreted the symbolism of the dagger in much the same way.

[PNSSHOGUN]

The gift of daggers was a long established gesture in the navy and are still traditionally viewed as a talisman. Inami's comment on knife vs suicide knife makes a lot of sense in this context.  

[When Necessary]

John just beat me to it!

This beautiful example (sold in Japan) indeed describes the dagger as "a protective charm" 

 

https://www.nipponto.co.jp/swords5/TT327962.htm

 

English translation:

This dagger is a short sword for Navy Zero Fighter pilots. During numerous battles such as the attack on Pearl Harbor, the Battle of the Coral Sea, the Battle of Midway, the Solomon Islands campaign, the Battle of the Philippine Sea, and the Battle of Leyte Gulf, outstanding Zero Fighter pilots distinguished themselves. The Zero Fighter was so strong that it was said enemy aircraft would scatter like spiders when it appeared. This dagger was cherished and worn in the cockpit as a protective charm. However, in the latter half of the Pacific War, due to the overwhelming resources of the Allied forces, Zero Fighter pilots went into many battles and fought valiantly but were rarely able to return. As a result, this dagger was lost along with the Zero Fighter, making its survival today miraculous. It is valuable enough to be housed in a museum.

[When Necessary]

I just had a thought: if daggers were given to suicide pilots (submarine and plane) as good luck talismans, then surely the efficacy of such a charm would be measured by whether the pilot safely reached his target, killing himself in the process.

 

A tad Catch 22.