How do I gain enough knowledge about Nihontos to make a purchase when I go to Japan in 3 months?

[Davo]

I just recently purchased a few cheap replicas but then my focus shifted to nihontos and mainly antique katanas,probably pretty old ones. I am going to Japan in October and I want to learn all I can about my new passion. I did just receive The Connoisseurs Book of Japanese Swords to start. But I need suggestions on what I need to learn and resources etc.  More books? Online reading or videos?  How to inspect a Nihonto for certain features?  I am truly serious about my interest in Japanese swords and am actually going to Japan for this alone. I just have to do it before November or I may lose my chance to go for a long time.  I should be there during the Seki Homono festival. I don’t even know where I’m gonna stay. Probably Tokyo and travel to Seki for a day or two.  
 

Thank you for any assistance it will be very gladly appreciated! 

[Scogg]

Hi Davo , that’s is a tall order! I am into this hobby for years now, and still do not have what I consider “enough” knowledge about Nihonto. 
 

Getting your Connoisseurs book is a great start. When you start to read it, try not to be intimidated. It will take some time to be comfortable with the vocabulary and that’s totally normal. I would often read my connoisseurs book alongside “Marcus Sesko’s encyclopedia of Japanese swords”, so I could cross reference vocabulary and definitions.
 

My recommendation is to view your sword study through a timeless lens. Understand that to fully understand Nihonto, it may be a life long journey. Going to Japan in October may be too soon to understand it a deep way, but not too soon to enjoy some swords, learn a lot, and catapult your study in a positive way. 

I’m sure others will have great recommendations for your trip. 

All the best,

-Sam

[Davo]

18 minutes ago, Scogg said:

Hi Davo , that’s is a tall order! I am into this hobby for years now, and still do not have what I consider “enough” knowledge about Nihonto. 
 

Getting your Connoisseurs book is a great start. When you start to read it, try not to be intimidated. It will take some time to be comfortable with the vocabulary and that’s totally normal. I would often read my connoisseurs book alongside “Marcus Sesko’s encyclopedia of Japanese swords”, so I could cross reference vocabulary and definitions.
 

My recommendation is to view your sword study through a timeless lens. Understand that to fully understand Nihonto, it may be a life long journey. Going to Japan in October may be too soon to understand it a deep way, but not too soon to enjoy some swords, learn a lot, and catapult your study in a positive way. 

I’m sure others will have great recommendations for your trip. 

All the best,

-Sam

Ah yes I might repost this to make it clear. I mean enough knowledge to make a purchase. 

[Mikaveli]

Learn about condition/flaws, how to spot fakes (and common targets), and understand appraisal certificates/kanteisho and how much weight they carry would be a minimum foundation.

 

Next, find some reputable dealers.

 

Then, you just need to know your budget and what you like.

[Lewis B]

If you can extend your trip into first week of November you will be in Japan for the annual DTI expo held in the center of Tokyo. Probably your best opportunity to immerse yourself in everything Nihonto and possibly find your dream sword. Buying from a reputable dealer will ensure a smooth transaction. Just remember it takes up to 6 weeks to get the export permit so the sword would have to be shipped and of course, you'll have to consider the inevitable tariffs that are in effect. 

 

To answer your question. Bottomline there is no fast track. Knowledge comes from long study, both books, discussion and most importantly having the swords in hand. The point regarding carefully selecting a dealer is probably your best bet. I would focus time deciding on the era, school, blade type (tachi, katana, wakazashi or tanto) that appeals to you personally, and of course, budget. Your purchase should come with modern NBTHK papers.

[Scogg]

Whoops, my misunderstanding. Sounds like a fun trip!

 

I’ll let others take over, because I’ve actually never bought from Japan. 
 

One thing I would recommend being very familiar with, is appropriate sword etiquette; so you don’t find yourself in a situation where you’ve unintentionally offended anyone. I even re-read these links sometimes before going to shows. 

 

https://swordsofjapan.com/nihonto-library/nbthk-etiquette/

 

https://www.nihontoownersclub.com/etiquette

 

Safe travels!

-Sam 

[Bugyotsuji]

Sword shops will ask you what you are looking for. Antique katana?

Will you want it in shirasaya or full koshiraé? Papered or unpapered. (Rough budget?)

Is there any particular age, or area, or blade pattern, or smith that particularly attracts you already? This will help them narrow down what to bring out and show you, wasting no-one’s time.

[Shugyosha]

My suggestion would be to forget learning all you can about Japanese swords, I'd focus on learning as much as you can about as narrow an area of the market as possible. Go through the process that Piers has suggested - work out your budget and from there age of blade, type of blade, school or province, signed/ unsigned etc. Do this as quickly as possible then learn all you can about the market for blades in that category by reviewing the Japanese dealer sites.

 

I think having an appreciation of quality in relation to price will probably be of more use to you in the short time available. By way of homework, you can always post a selection of ghost purchases on the board for critique so you are better informed and, erm, we get to play at spending your money. 

 

 

[Brian]

I run this forum, for almost 20 years. And I still consider myself a novice. My advice is to ask people who know more than you for advice before making a purchase. There are some guys out there with decent knowledge. 
And try buy papered if you are in Japan. No paper is a bad sign if the item is at a decent level. Luckily you won't see fake swords there since they are illegal, but Chinese fittings and gimei signatures are rife.

[nulldevice]

I will say, what I thought I wanted in my first sword from just looking at books and online pictures of swords and what I actually ended up buying and now focusing on were 2 very different things. Seeing swords and handling them in person for the first time really changed my perspective and prompted additional book-buying and research. 

 

Like everyone else has said, budget, idea of era, type of sword (katana, tachi, waki, tanto, etc.), koshirae or not, are all big factors that help to have decided upon beforehand. I'd also suggest being flexible as you never know what may intrigue you. In Japan, I'd recommend going for blades with modern NBTHK papers as you'll not have to fuss about whether or not the sword was part of the scandal years and can be content knowing your sword is what it purports to be. 

[Jacques]

David, 

I'd like to know what interests you about Nihontö

[Rawa]

5 hours ago, Davo said:

I just recently purchased a few cheap replicas but then my focus shifted to nihontos and mainly antique katanas,probably pretty old ones. I am going to Japan in October and I want to learn all I can about my new passion. I did just receive The Connoisseurs Book of Japanese Swords to start. But I need suggestions on what I need to learn and resources etc.  More books? Online reading or videos?  How to inspect a Nihonto for certain features?  I am truly serious about my interest in Japanese swords and am actually going to Japan for this alone. I just have to do it before November or I may lose my chance to go for a long time.  I should be there during the Seki Homono festival. I don’t even know where I’m gonna stay. Probably Tokyo and travel to Seki for a day or two.  
 

Thank you for any assistance it will be very gladly appreciated! 

To be sure buy only pappered ones with gendaito exception.

[Davo]

42 minutes ago, Jacques said:

David, 

I'd like to know what interests you about Nihontö

It’s hard to explain. I can write a lot and I will get back to you. But it started as just a “cool” looking sword that has been glamorized in movies and stories.  So was always in my mind since my youth. I just never thought about owning one until I ran across some online for entry level and then I loved those because I started to appreciate the beauty of the swords rather than thinking of them as “cool”. In fact my wife hates weapons and hates knives etc. But she actually did not have a problem with my katana being on display. Which means that she saw the beauty in something that normally would scare her. If you knew my wife you would understand why this is significant.  Anyway, then through looking online for other katana I learned of all the parts of it.  Which made me see it more as something with meaning in it.  This is when it started to become more.  And when I learned about Nihonto antique swords the feelings felt more of the reality and just the feelings people relate to antiques. I don’t know it’s hard to list everything. It still took me by surprise how I felt when I actually thought about owning a Nihonto and it isn’t easily describable and so it’s hard to pinpoint specific interests. 

[Davo]

48 minutes ago, Rawa said:

To be sure buy only pappered ones with gendaito exception.

What does a gendaito exception mean?  I don’t think papers recognize the term gendaito do they?  Maybe they do not sure. 

[Rawa]

Basically blades made after meiji restoration.

[Cola]

From my very limited experience there's a few common problems if you are browsing as a hobby collector; and simply walking away from them is safest.

- Green or white papers; these are from an old system that was fraudulated with a lot, so essentially the same as no papers at all. If you can, get something with NBTHK hozon or tokubetsu hozon.

- Flaws; look up the fatal flaws like chips, blisters, delaminations etc. in the sword.

- Overpolished swords, especially older ones can be polished a lot trough their lifetime, and they lose a bit of surface every time. At some point the course core steel comes through, or the hamon can even be lost, especially in the kissaki.

A telltale sign is the hamachi, which becomes smaller with every polishing. It's acceptable among collectors, but you have to decide if it's also acceptable for you. 

-Koshirae can sometimes be cobbled together, and may not belong to the sword at all. So a sword might be sold with koshirae, but that doesn't mean they properly fit together.

-Rust on the blade (especially if it's red); you can't just wipe it off and the sword would need a fresh polishing which is expensive and difficult. 

 

[Davo]

1 hour ago, Rawa said:

Basically blades made after meiji restoration.

Oh ok. You think that’s a good choice for a first Nihonto?  Something that can be good quality without being too expensive?  Then later someday when I know what I want I can spend more? 

[Davo]

6 hours ago, Lewis B said:

If you can extend your trip into first week of November you will be in Japan for the annual DTI expo held in the center of Tokyo. Probably your best opportunity to immerse yourself in everything Nihonto and possibly find your dream sword. Buying from a reputable dealer will ensure a smooth transaction. Just remember it takes up to 6 weeks to get the export permit so the sword would have to be shipped and of course, you'll have to consider the inevitable tariffs that are in effect. 

 

To answer your question. Bottomline there is no fast track. Knowledge comes from long study, both books, discussion and most importantly having the swords in hand. The point regarding carefully selecting a dealer is probably your best bet. I would focus time deciding on the era, school, blade type (tachi, katana, wakazashi or tanto) that appeals to you personally, and of course, budget. Your purchase should come with modern NBTHK papers.

Yes I will make sure to be there. Sounds much better than Seki which is second week October so can’t do both 

1 hour ago, Rawa said:

Basically blades made after meiji restoration.

Oh ok. You think that’s a good choice for a first Nihonto?  Something that can be good quality without being too expensive?  Then later someday when I know what I want I can spend more? 

[Davo]

47 minutes ago, Cola said:

From my very limited experience there's a few common problems if you are browsing as a hobby collector; and simply walking away from them is safest.

- Green or white papers; these are from an old system that was fraudulated with a lot, so essentially the same as no papers at all. If you can, get something with NBTHK hozon or tokubetsu hozon.

- Flaws; look up the fatal flaws like chips, blisters, delaminations etc. in the sword.

- Overpolished swords, especially older ones can be polished a lot trough their lifetime, and they lose a bit of surface every time. At some point the course core steel comes through, or the hamon can even be lost, especially in the kissaki.

A telltale sign is the hamachi, which becomes smaller with every polishing. It's acceptable among collectors, but you have to decide if it's also acceptable for you. 

-Koshirae can sometimes be cobbled together, and may not belong to the sword at all. So a sword might be sold with koshirae, but that doesn't mean they properly fit together.

-Rust on the blade (especially if it's red); you can't just wipe it off and the sword would need a fresh polishing which is expensive and difficult. 

 

Good advice. Yea I’m thinking to get an old Nihonto in good condition without flaws you mentioned would be too much for me to spend at this time due to me just getting into buying. Maybe I need to buy a newer Nihonto that would have minimal flaws and cost much less? 

[Rawa]

Depends what you will find on hand. Dunno how tariffs bite you now but ww2 era gendaito in military koshirae is probably easier to get in usa then Japan 

[Davo]

4 hours ago, Brian said:

I run this forum, for almost 20 years. And I still consider myself a novice. My advice is to ask people who know more than you for advice before making a purchase. There are some guys out there with decent knowledge. 
And try buy papered if you are in Japan. No paper is a bad sign if the item is at a decent level. Luckily you won't see fake swords there since they are illegal, but Chinese fittings and gimei signatures are rife.

Thanks for having this forum.  For sure I will only buy with the NTBHK papers and probably just Shirasaya.  Although I have no idea how much or who could custom make me a Tsuba and Saya someday?  I do want koshirae but so many don’t have it so chances are I will like a blade that doesn’t have koshirae.  I’m guessing I will make my budget but too much because yeah it may take many years before I truly know what older Nihonto I may want. Don’t want to make large purchase and regret it later.  I am sure a nice papered Nihonto in good shape that is not too much money will be a nice start to my collection and I will enjoy it. 

[Davo]

2 minutes ago, Rawa said:

Depends what you will find on hand. Dunno how tariffs bite you now but ww2 era gendaito in military koshirae is probably easier to get in usa then Japan 

Yea. If I find a Nihonto that just feels right I can’t worry about tariffs. Just have to bite the bullet. If I don’t find a sword at least I will have a better understanding and feel for Nihonto to help me decide if I will purchase U.S.A. later.  But a ww2 gendaito in the states won’t have NTBHK papers?  Oh can you get a sword appraised in USA.  It has to be done in Japan right?  

[Lewis B]

Bit late now but this show would have been the ideal introduction to nihonto from all eras. Don't under estimate these shows which are held regularly in SF, Chicago and Florida. Attending the DTI as a neophyte might be quite overwhelming.

Sometimes these US shows also have Shinsa sessions. NTHK I believe with an appraisal certificate at the end of the process.

 

https://www.ncjsc.org/events/san-francisco-to-ken-taikai

[Peter Bleed]

Davo, 

You have been given lots of "advice". I suppose that gong to some dealers in Japan might be all right, BUT at this point you should meet sword collector. Look at their collections. Find out about American sword collecting. Texas is FULL of sword collectors. Figure out who they are and how to meet them. Go to some American sword shows. Heck, go to one of the big Texas gun shows. Ask local arms collectors (ie guys who collect militaria, guns, whatever) in your areas who the Japanese sword collectors are/were. That will let you look at a range of swords. You may not want to buy from them, but it may also let you see blades that will expand you horizons

Peter

[Davo]

1 hour ago, Rawa said:

Depends what you will find on hand. Dunno how tariffs bite you now but ww2 era gendaito in military koshirae is probably easier to get in usa then Japan 

What are some trusted U.S. sources to get Nihonto ?

[Davo]

46 minutes ago, Peter Bleed said:

Davo, 

You have been given lots of "advice". I suppose that gong to some dealers in Japan might be all right, BUT at this point you should meet sword collector. Look at their collections. Find out about American sword collecting. Texas is FULL of sword collectors. Figure out who they are and how to meet them. Go to some American sword shows. Heck, go to one of the big Texas gun shows. Ask local arms collectors (ie guys who collect militaria, guns, whatever) in your areas who the Japanese sword collectors are/were. That will let you look at a range of swords. You may not want to buy from them, but it may also let you see blades that will expand you horizons

Peter

I tried to find places before and was surprised my searches didn’t find anything being im near DFW area.  Maybe I need to search organizations or something. But I don’t know any or what to search for. 

[Davo]

48 minutes ago, Peter Bleed said:

Davo, 

You have been given lots of "advice". I suppose that gong to some dealers in Japan might be all right, BUT at this point you should meet sword collector. Look at their collections. Find out about American sword collecting. Texas is FULL of sword collectors. Figure out who they are and how to meet them. Go to some American sword shows. Heck, go to one of the big Texas gun shows. Ask local arms collectors (ie guys who collect militaria, guns, whatever) in your areas who the Japanese sword collectors are/were. That will let you look at a range of swords. You may not want to buy from them, but it may also let you see blades that will expand you horizons

Peter

How did you know I was in Texas?  Didn’t know it would show here. I’m new here so I don’t know.  

[Peter Bleed]

Davo, 

Look at the names listed elsewhere on this list. 

P

[Peter Bleed]

Oh, and have you bought and read some books - in English - on Japanese swords. Good down and explore the sales portions of this list.

P

[Davo]

Just now, Peter Bleed said:

Oh, and have you bought and read some books - in English - on Japanese swords. Good down and explore the sales portions of this list.

P

Oh ok the profile. I thought I was filling that out for the admin lol.