Council

[Pritajeni1]

Greetings to everyone in the group.

I would like to share with you a very beautiful specimen of a unique Katana. I would also like to verify its authenticity — both the sword and the parchment — by Japanese experts.

The University of Oxford, a university in Switzerland, a university in Serbia, and one in Montenegro have all given similar opinions.

Which institution in Japan could assist with this?

Thank you all for your understanding and responses.

Kind regards 🙂

[PNSSHOGUN]

Unfortunately this is an absolutely appalling fake, the certificates are complete nonsense and worthless. Seek an immediate refund. 

https://www.jssus.org/nkp/fake_japanese_swords.html 

[Pritajeni1]

And what made you, 'expert', conclude that it's a forgery in just 3 minutes?

[PNSSHOGUN]

Anyone with a passing knowledge of real Japanese swords could tell you this is a very poor fake in a matter of seconds. 

[Pritajeni1]

15 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

I don’t even know what to tell you — now you’re denying, with just a glance, radioactive comparison and material testing, even of the very parchment made from an eel that went extinct in the 12th century. These fools at the Institute are truly monkeys for investing hundreds of millions of dollars into all those X-rays and lasers. I’ll recommend you to them. My question is for the institute in Japan – someone who can actually help, not just assess things like you do. 😀

 

[Lewis B]

Sorry RR, but John is absolutely correct. The spelling mistakes and assertions on the "Certificate" are laughable. 

[Matsunoki]

If you do not believe what you have been told then contact the NBTHK in Japan. The leading  authority on Japanese Sword authentication.

Send them some images…..they will enjoy a good laugh. This is utter nonsense and an elaborate fake.

 

[Pritajeni1]

Thank you very much, please send me the site

[oli]

26 minutes ago, Pritajeni1 said:

Thank you very much, please send me the site

https://www.touken.or.jp

or european branch https://nbthk.eu

[Pritajeni1]

39 minutes ago, oli said:

хттпс://ввв.тоукен.ор.јп

или  европска филијала https://nbthk.eu

Tnx

[Brian]

Afraid there is not one single thing here that bears any relation to a Japanese sword even remotely. It is so far out of real as to be comical.
Nothing intended as criticism, but they are insane if they came to that conclusion and I would question their testing methods or even their basic knowledge. It does not have even the slightest chance of being anything real. I don't even see anything Chinese archaic there. 

[Pritajeni1]

59 minutes ago, Brian said:

I would like to thank you all for your responses and critiques, especially member OLI who pointed me in the right direction, where I submitted the documentation. Now let them give their expert opinion, and I will seek to recover my money from the various institutes where I paid for services.

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

It's shameful if any respected Asian studies departments delivered these results, sincerely hope you receive your money back. 

[Brian]

29 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

It's shameful if any respected Asian studies departments delivered these results, sincerely hope you receive your money back. 

I suspect both certificates are completely fake, and had nothing to do with either organization. In fact, neither template exists for either of these organizations, and the wording is just bizarre. Plus all the Japanese fonts mixed in with English. High level fakery here.

[Hokke]

Just my opinion, but I suspect this entire inquiry was based on ulterior motives, its just too peculiar. Time will tell of course, but I would hazard a guess this item will be seen listed for sale at some point sooner than later. 

[Pritajeni1]

1 hour ago, Hokke said:

Dear members,
You should also know one more thing — a legal dispute over the ownership of this katana has been ongoing for nearly 10 years, until recently. I hope that contact will be established with the NBTHK, to whom I have submitted a request for the authenticity of this item.

Just imagine how much it costs to keep the katana in a vault for 10 years — where it is still stored today — only for someone to say it's a poor replica. But let’s leave that to the experts to give their opinion.

I have shared with you one of the opinions and verifications. We’ll see what the experts say — I’ll keep you updated.

 

[Pritajeni1]

2 hours ago, Brian said:

"Brian You have no idea about life or what you're writing about — you just write for the sake of writing!"

 

[Scogg]

It's very clearly a fake Japanese sword, and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind.

 

The fact that it's been disputed for ~10 years would imply that someone is not trying very hard. 

Here is a helpful link to spot fakes in the future:
https://www.jssus.org/nkp/fake_japanese_swords.html

I am in no way trying to be rude, although I can see how it might seem that way.
The fact is, it does not require an expert to tell a pigeon from a falcon.
-Sam

[Pritajeni1]

2 minutes ago, Scogg said:

Сасвим је очигледно да је у питању лажни јапански мач, и немам апсолутно никакве сумње у то .

 

Чињеница да се око тога расправља већ око 10 година указује на то да се неко не труди баш најбоље. 

Ево корисне везе за препознавање фалсификата у будућности:
https://www.jssus.org/nkp/fake_japanese_swords.html

Ни на који начин не покушавам да будем груб, иако могу да видим како би то могло тако да изгледа. Чињеница је да
није потребан стручњак да би се разликовао голуб од сокола.
- Сем

My respects. I don't know who in the world could falsify the age of steel, who could fake rust – and that is examined using nuclear magnetic resonance. So much for your knowledge, dear Sam.

[Brian]

I seem to remember waaaaay back...maybe 10+ years when something like this came up here...possibly the same item. Was being valued in the East Bloc for millions and was a clear fake. There was a group/syndicate behind it....some elaborate company using auction house to legitimize it. It was a total fake item. Wonder if it was the same.

You can say what you like and argue as much as you want, and insult as much as you want, there is not ONE person on this entire forum or in Japan who will even give this 1 minute of their time. It is so far from reality that it is just absurd. Have to go find that other thread from way back, almost the exact same story and fake "certificates" on something that doesn't resemble any Japanese sword that ever existed. It's not even like there is plausible doubt here. It is so obvious as to be absurd.

[Pritajeni1]

It would be nice if you could find it and send it to me. I'm not arguing at all, I'm just responding to comments about things I know. Thank you kindly."

[Scogg]

2 minutes ago, Pritajeni1 said:

My respects. I don't know who in the world could falsify the age of steel, who could fake rust – and that is examined using nuclear magnetic resonance. So much for your knowledge, dear Sam.

Be careful not to blindly trust the analysis on what appears to be a forged authenticity paper; and be aware of the possibility that an old piece of scrap metal could be repurposed. 

Nothing about this item is genuine, and I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
-Sam

[Matsunoki]

I think we have a troll…..

It takes a few seconds to look at Oxford Archaeology and realise they are archaeologists ie they dig holes in the ground and research/appraise historic sites and buildings.
They don’t issue these appraisal certificates. 
It’s as fake as the “sword”.

 

 

[nulldevice]

This reminds me of the other Russian sword $100,000,000 tachi or whatever thread from years ago that made its rounds that has been mentioned already. 

 

I found it funny while trying to read the poorly translated "Test Report" that the blade is both 600mm long and 3855mm long. I want to see a 3855mm long tachi. This would dwarf even the Masayoshi Odachi!

 

 

[Pritajeni1]

5 minutes ago, Matsunoki said:

Мислим да имамо трола...

Потребно је неколико секунди да се погледа Оксфордска археологија и схвати да су то археолози, тј. копају рупе у земљи и истражују/процењују историјска места и зграде.
Они не издају ове сертификате о процени. 
Лажно је као и „мач“.

 

 

"Their university at Oxford, which revealed the age going back X and Y years—you’re saying that’s a lie? 🤣🤣🤣🙏🙏🙏 God help him, he doesn’t even know what he’s talking about anymore. All the archaeological sites from Roman times, the Stone Age, Ancient Greece, the Middle Ages—everyone knows they are verified right there. They conducted tests on the age of the steel, its flexibility, how many layers it was forged in, the parchment it was made of, the type of silk used—made from the golden eel, which hasn’t existed since the 12th century—seals from the Japanese Emperor Fujiwara! They confirmed all that and much more."

[Matsunoki]

This thread is better than anything on the telly at the moment.

Definitely a troll. 
As far as I know there wasn’t a Japanese Emperor Fujiwara.

[Brian]

You realize that Japanese swords have NEVER been made by layering? Never in the history of Japanese swords were there ever layers....never mind the fact that you can never, ever, work out how many times a sword was folded. That ONE single comment proves this is fake. Layering is a fake idea that people who know nothing about Nihonto use as a term because they do not know how these swords are made.
The folding is used to remove impurities, and the steel is worked to remove these and incorporate the metal. You don't get layers, especially ones that can be measured. Hada is very, very different to layering.
Oxford certainly does age tests, for their own research. They do not, and never have...done it for external items and then issue certificates. Call them yourself. Your certificates are fake, your item is fake. 
And there never was...ever....any "golden eel"
Does not exist, never did. 
It's a term used for one of the life stages of a current (very much thriving) eel life stage.
At this point someone needs to tell you to wake up!

[Pritajeni1]

The Fujiwara family (藤原氏, Fujiwara-shi) was one of the most powerful aristocratic families in Japanese history, especially during the Heian period (794–1185). They did not rule as emperors, but through political alliances — primarily by marrying their daughters to emperors — they held enormous influence over the Japanese court.

 

Key facts about the Fujiwara clan:

 

Founder: Fujiwara no Kamatari (614–669), who received the surname “Fujiwara” from Emperor Tenji.

 

Peak of power: 9th and 10th centuries, when family members served as regents (sesshō and kampaku) for child or adult emperors.

 

Most famous member: Fujiwara no Michinaga (966–1027), who successfully controlled the court without ever becoming emperor himself.

 

 

Why are they important?

 

Through the sekkan seiji system (regency government), the Fujiwara ruled "from behind the scenes."

 

They had a major cultural impact — supporting the development of Japanese art, poetry, and architecture during the Heian period.

 

Their decline in power began with the rise of samurai families such as the Taira and Minamoto.

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

The certificate is Chinese.

[Pritajeni1]

5 minutes ago, Brian said:

Свесни сте да јапански мачеви НИКАДА нису прављени слојевима? Никада у историји јапанских мачева није било слојева... а да не помињемо чињеницу да никада, никада не можете израчунати колико пута је мач пресавијен. Тај ЈЕДАН коментар доказује да је ово лажно. Слојеви су лажна идеја коју људи који не знају ништа о Нихонтоу користе као термин јер не знају како се ови мачеви праве.
Пресавијање се користи за уклањање нечистоћа, а челик се обрађује да би се оне уклониле и уградио метал. Не добијате слојеве, посебно оне који се могу мерити. Хада се веома, веома разликује од слојева.
Оксфорд свакако ради тестове старости, за своја истраживања. Они то не раде, и никада нису... радили за спољне предмете, а затим издају сертификате. Сами их назовите. Ваши сертификати су лажни, ваш предмет је лажан. 
И никада... никада... није постојала никаква „златна јегуља“.
Не постоји, никада није постојала. 
То је термин који се користи за једну од животних фаза тренутне (веома напредне) животне фазе јегуље.
У овом тренутку неко треба да вам каже да се пробудите!

I’m only saying what I know, but thank you for the advice. Please don’t take this the wrong way — this isn’t an argument; I was just asking where I could verify the authenticity. I’ve sent it, and if they say the same as you, then everything will be different.

 

Wishing everyone all the best, lots of health and happiness.