Painted collection number comes in handy for provenance.

[Spartancrest]

I was doing some work on the Poncetton collection [1924] and noticed an Onin tsuba that twigged a memory back to the Hayashi Tadamasa collection of 1902. [yes I do live in the past! ]

I found the images and tried to do a visual comparison. Both collections only showed one side view and of course they were not the same view!  However the older Hayashi collection had a brief description which included its catalogue number from that time [1902]  - The Poncetton image had even less by way of descriptions except for a tiny number at the top of the nakago-ana no. 49  - - the same collection number as the Hayashi description. Bingo!! That allows me to push the provenance of the piece back beyond what the Poncetton collection knew.

 

The Poncetton collection cites H. Vever. as the previous owner and Henri Vever has an interesting Wikipedia article  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Vever   Which in part states "By the 1880s, Vever became one of the earliest Europeans to formally collect Japanese ukiyo-e woodblock prints, purchasing extensively from dealers such as Hayashi Tadamasa."  He must also have collected tsuba, at least the one that was still in Hayashi's collection in 1902 (Tsuba are not mentioned in the article but other collectors of the same, such as Gonse & Migeon are listed) 

 

I guess the point is if you have any old collection numbers on your tsuba, please, please leave them in place - they may come in handy!

[Jake6500]

Just now, Spartancrest said:

I was doing some work on the Poncetton collection [1924] and noticed an Onin tsuba that twigged a memory back to the Hayashi Tadamasa collection of 1902. [yes I do live in the past! ]

I found the images and tried to do a visual comparison. Both collections only showed one side view and of course they were not the same view!  However the older Hayashi collection had a brief description which included its catalogue number from that time [1902]  - The Poncetton image had even less by way of descriptions except for a tiny number at the top of the nakago-ana no. 49  - - the same collection number as the Hayashi description. Bingo!! That allows me to push the provenance of the piece back beyond what the Poncetton collection knew.

 

The Poncetton collection cites H. Vever. as the previous owner and Henri Vever has an interesting Wikipedia article  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Vever   Which in part states "By the 1880s, Vever became one of the earliest Europeans to formally collect Japanese ukiyo-e woodblock prints, purchasing extensively from dealers such as Hayashi Tadamasa."  He must also have collected tsuba, at least the one that was still in Hayashi's collection in 1902 (Tsuba are not mentioned in the article but other collectors of the same, such as Gonse & Migeon are listed) 

 

I guess the point is if you have any old collection numbers on your tsuba, please, please leave them in place - they may come in handy!

Those are some incredible investigative powers as usual Dale!

 

Collection and catalogue numbers are an important tool in tracing the provenance of antiques!

 

[Baka Gaijin]

Hi Dale,

 

Sotheby's have a long and fascinating relationship with the Vever family of Jewellers:

 

https://www.sothebys.com/en/brands/vever

 

The Henri Vever Sales (Parts 1 & 2) of Tsuba etc took place in 1973.

 

I recall viewing the Sale of much of Henri Vever's extensive collection of prints and drawings in March 1974 at Sotheby's.

 

Two years later, in Dec 1976 Sotheby's published "Japanese Prints and Drawings from the Vever Collection" which was written by Jack Hillier.

 

The final part of the collection was dispersed at Sotheby's in October 1997.

 

 

 

 

[Jesta]

On 4/26/2025 at 11:46 AM, Spartancrest said:

 

I guess the point is if you have any old collection numbers on your tsuba, please, please leave them in place - they may come in handy!

 

I was just thinking about this, and wondering if it would be a good plan to get rid of them. I am not a fan of the stickers, but you raise an excellent point about provenance. I will keep them on… 

[Spartancrest]

59 minutes ago, Jesta said:

I will keep them on…

It does add to their history - I don't think most people would mark their collections anymore, but then we have the ability to photograph and take detailed digital records.

 

I just traced some more information from some old references, which can show how some information can get lost and now brought back together. These two images are two years apart and neither source had both sides published - goes to show that sometimes displaying the incorrect side can come in handy otherwise you would need to guess what the other side looked like. The Poncetton image has a paper tag attached to the nakago-ana & hitsu so it didn't have to have a number painted on - these little paper tags are a less intrusive way to catalogue a collection, pity we can't read the information on it. 

 

It would appear Poncetton didn't like stickers on his tsuba in all cases? fickle 

 

[Curran]

Nice bit of detective work there.

@Spartancrest   (Dale) Thank you for sharing this. Some very interesting unique tsuba, and a good point about seeing both sides of a tsuba.

[Tsuba gardener]

On 4/27/2025 at 5:23 AM, Spartancrest said:

It does add to their history - I don't think most people would mark their collections anymore, but then we have the ability to photograph and take detailed digital records.

 

I just traced some more information from some old references, which can show how some information can get lost and now brought back together. These two images are two years apart and neither source had both sides published - goes to show that sometimes displaying the incorrect side can come in handy otherwise you would need to guess what the other side looked like. The Poncetton image has a paper tag attached to the nakago-ana & hitsu so it didn't have to have a number painted on - these little paper tags are a less intrusive way to catalogue a collection, pity we can't read the information on it. 

 

It would appear Poncetton didn't like stickers on his tsuba in all cases? fickle 

 

 

[Tsuba gardener]

Hi Spartan Quest, (Dale), sorry for the delay, (l mentioned l was going to post my 2 tsuba from the Poncetton collection in April).  This one with the gourds was marked by the auction as Kaga. This was a single lot. The second Sukashi was in a lot of 5 along with the single tsuba from the Marquis de Tresson collection.  Relevant to your post Dale, l only found the relationship to the earlier collections by researching a single auction number online.  I am wondering whether the other 3 sukashi tsuba in the group of 5 were also from earlier European collections but so far l haven't been able to ascertain whether they were. Neil B

[Ian B3HR2UH]

Neil , could I trouble you to post a photo of the numbers . I am trying to work out who painted red numbers inside the nakago ana of their tsuba ( which a pair of mine have ).

Ian 

[Spartancrest]

10 hours ago, Tsuba gardener said:

the other 3 sukashi tsuba in the group of 5

Neil, can you post the image of the other 3 sukashi? I have a lot of old auction images and I might be able to find their provenance. Google images can sometimes be great to track things down but only if someone has actually scanned the images and they are on-line. Otherwise - thank god for old books! 

[zanilu]

 I have this Hamano ({浜野}) school tsuba signed Nobuyuki ({鋪隨}) in my collection that have a red lacquered number painted inside the nakago-ana. By enhancing some images the number seems to be composed by five digits and reads like ``28722'' or ``28.722''. 

I have tried to find the provenance from the number but without success.

 

If any information about it is available or you can find out more I will appreciate it!

 

Dimensions are 65.1 mm x 59.0 mm thickness 4.2 mm.

 

Regards
Luca

 

[Tsuba gardener]

17 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

Neil, can you post the image of the other 3 sukashi? I have a lot of old auction images and I might be able to find their provenance. Google images can sometimes be great to track things down but only if someone has actually scanned the images and they are on-line. Otherwise - thank god for old books! 

 

[Tsuba gardener]

Just now, Tsuba gardener said:

 

Hi Dale please find the 3 tsuba as requested. The auction l acquired them from was Bonham's Samurai Snow Spectacle, 7/11/24. Best regards, Neil. 

[Spartancrest]

On 11/14/2025 at 12:20 AM, Tsuba gardener said:

This one with the gourds was marked by the auction as Kaga.

 

 I have drawn a blank on the other guards - the rabbit is very distinctive and I am sure I have never seen it before.

The Yatsuhashi design is more common but the examples I found have one squared hitsu: https://www.giuseppepiva.com/it/opere/tsuba-kyo-sukashi-con-motivo-yatsuhashi/    

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/22685-iron-tsuba-of-lord-viewing-fuji/   

 

 "from a Princely Collection." Is a little vague as a reference to do a search. 

 

Edited November 15 by Spartancrest
layout

[Tsuba gardener]

4 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

 

 I have drawn a blank on the other guards - the rabbit is very distinctive and I am sure I have never seen it before.

The Yatsuhashi design is more common but the examples I found have one squared hitsu: https://www.giuseppepiva.com/it/opere/tsuba-kyo-sukashi-con-motivo-yatsuhashi/    

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/22685-iron-tsuba-of-lord-viewing-fuji/   

 

 "from a Princely Collection." Is a little vague as a reference to do a search. 

 

Many thanks for researching Dale, l appreciate your time and effort. From my research the "Princely" aspect may relate to the collection of a Saudi Prince who died. I will post details later.

[Tsuba gardener]

14 hours ago, Tsuba gardener said:

Many thanks for researching Dale, l appreciate your time and effort. From my research the "Princely" aspect may relate to the collection of a Saudi Prince who died. I will post details later.

Hi Dale further to my  succinct message this morning, on contacting Bonham's after the auction l was told Princly related to a late Qutari Prince. No name was given but a prominent collector of tsuba was the late Saoud bin Mohammed Ali Al-Thani who died in 2012.

[Spartancrest]

1 hour ago, Tsuba gardener said:

Saoud bin Mohammed Ali Al-Thani who died in 2012.

 Sheikh Saoud bin Mohammed bin Ali Al-Thani, who was Qatar's former culture minister and a major art collector, but he died in 2014, not 2012. He was known for building Qatar's impressive art collections and was credited with the development of institutions like the Museum of Islamic Art.   l think this must be the guy alright! 

 

Two from his collection up for auction soon - https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/masayuki-a-fine-hamano-school-sentoku-tsuba-depic-81-c-c958d4c1f8    And a "hundred monkeys" https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/mitsuhiro-a-hizen-school-sentoku-and-gold-'100-mo-62-c-7daad21d34

Edited November 15 by Spartancrest

[Curran]

On 11/14/2025 at 11:43 AM, zanilu said:

 I have this Hamano ({浜野}) school tsuba signed Nobuyuki ({鋪隨}) in my collection that have a red lacquered number painted inside the nakago-ana. By enhancing some images the number seems to be composed by five digits and reads like ``28722'' or ``28.722''. 

 

From prior experience helping with the deacquisition of about 140 tsuba from a small museum, the first two numbers (28) usually reference the year it was taken in by the museum. Then pull the old books kept by the museum and look up acquisition item 722 from that year.

        The collection I helped with was largely taken in 3 waves during the 1920s and 1930s.  I still have two of the tsuba that I bought from it.

 

Over the years, I have had other tsuba with Museum #s.

Currently the only one I have is this big thin Ko-shoami or Ko-Kat.

For various reasons, I know what country it came from but not what museum.

Anyone have anything similar and information to share, do let me know.

 

[Tsuba gardener]

7 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

 Sheikh Saoud bin Mohammed bin Ali Al-Thani, who was Qatar's former culture minister and a major art collector, but he died in 2014, not 2012. He was known for building Qatar's impressive art collections and was credited with the development of institutions like the Museum of Islamic Art.   l think this must be the guy alright! 

 

Two from his collection up for auction soon - https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/masayuki-a-fine-hamano-school-sentoku-tsuba-depic-81-c-c958d4c1f8    And a "hundred monkeys" https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/mitsuhiro-a-hizen-school-sentoku-and-gold-'100-mo-62-c-7daad21d34

 

[Tsuba gardener]

7 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

 Sheikh Saoud bin Mohammed bin Ali Al-Thani, who was Qatar's former culture minister and a major art collector, but he died in 2014, not 2012. He was known for building Qatar's impressive art collections and was credited with the development of institutions like the Museum of Islamic Art.   l think this must be the guy alright! 

 

Two from his collection up for auction soon - https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/masayuki-a-fine-hamano-school-sentoku-tsuba-depic-81-c-c958d4c1f8    And a "hundred monkeys" https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/mitsuhiro-a-hizen-school-sentoku-and-gold-'100-mo-62-c-7daad21d34

 

[Tsuba gardener]

Hi Dale, Thanks for the additional information.  Yes l think so. I saw these but unfortunately out of my price range.

 

Interesting this auction includes 3 featured in Gunther Heckman's Tsuba book.

 

Neil 

[zanilu]

5 hours ago, Curran said:

 

From prior experience helping with the deacquisition of about 140 tsuba from a small museum, the first two numbers (28) usually reference the year it was taken in by the museum. Then pull the old books kept by the museum and look up acquisition item 722 from that year.

        The collection I helped with was largely taken in 3 waves during the 1920s and 1930s.  I still have two of the tsuba that I bought from it.

 

Over the years, I have had other tsuba with Museum #s.

Currently the only one I have is this big thin Ko-shoami or Ko-Kat.

For various reasons, I know what country it came from but not what museum.

Anyone have anything similar and information to share, do let me know.

Thank you for the info @Curranit is greatly appreciated!

 

Luca

[Ian B3HR2UH]

Whilst some of these numbers are no doubt museum numbers I suspect most of them are collectors numbers . For example Edward Gilbertson the pioneering English collector had a massive collection of Japanese art and numbered his pieces . He probably owned over a thousand tsuba. In 1889 he published three catalogues listing a selection of pieces from his " descriptive catalogue " The attached octagonal tsuba is from a paper he delivered to the Japan Society in 1894 and clearly shows the collection number  as it is dark paint on a light surface. The tsuba description is from his 1889 publication listing a selection of tsuba from his descriptive catalogue and shows that the number on the tsuba is his catalogue number.  C P Peak was another early English collector with a vast collection who numbered his pieces.

[Jake6500]

On 11/16/2025 at 10:47 AM, Spartancrest said:

 Sheikh Saoud bin Mohammed bin Ali Al-Thani, who was Qatar's former culture minister and a major art collector, but he died in 2014, not 2012. He was known for building Qatar's impressive art collections and was credited with the development of institutions like the Museum of Islamic Art.   l think this must be the guy alright! 

 

Two from his collection up for auction soon - https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/masayuki-a-fine-hamano-school-sentoku-tsuba-depic-81-c-c958d4c1f8    And a "hundred monkeys" https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/mitsuhiro-a-hizen-school-sentoku-and-gold-'100-mo-62-c-7daad21d34

That Shozui tsuba is spectacular and will no doubt sell for more than my kidneys Dale