Fujishiro papers

[Veli]

Could somebody shed some light on the quality requirements of Fujishiro papers; I understand they are highly esteemed, and 100% reliable in terms of signature authentication. But how do they compare with NBTHK and NTHK papers in terms of quality and healthiness requirements: are they more or less strict than e.g. NBTHK Hozon papers?

 

BR, Veli

[Jean]

http://www.nihonto.ca/ratings.html

[Gabriel L]

...and 100% reliable in terms of signature authentication...

News to me that any antique appraisal (or indeed most anything in life) is ever 100% reliable. Not to say that Fujishiro papers aren't entirely trustworthy from a practical perspective, but let's be serious.

[Henry Wilson]

They are with this sword. Looks nice for the price.

 

http://www.tokka.biz/sword/fuyuhiro.html

[Veli]

I actually meant to say 99.99% reliable but rounded the figure to 100% for convenience as well as in order to avoid being disrespectful

 

Let us put the question in another way: Has anybody ever encountered a sword papered by Fujishiro that, due to quality or flaw issues, probably would not receive NBTHK Hozon-token if submitted?

 

BR, Veli

[paulb]

Dear Veli,

As you say Fujishiro papers have a strong reputation for their accurracy. I dont doubt that as new research continues to increase understanding some of the older ones may be questioned. Regarding quality I have seen very few papers but the majority of comments you see about them seem to focus on authenticity of the mei rather than the quality of the blade. I assume that as with most top polishers if the sword was in too poor condition or had a fault that would prevent it passing shinsa then Fujishiro-san would neither polish it nor paper it.

This is based on feeling rather than fact but others I am sure will have greater experience.

Best Regards

Paul

[nagamaki - Franco]

I assume that as with most top polishers if the sword was in too poor condition or had a fault that would prevent it passing shinsa then Fujishiro-san would neither polish it nor paper it.

This is based on feeling rather than fact but others I am sure will have greater experience.

Best Regards

Paul

 

Hello Paul, of the half dozen or so Fujishiro papered swords seen over the years, not many, I'd say that your "feelings" serve you well. If memory serves, of the ones I've seen all the swords had a "Fujishiro polish" in addition to the papers, but only 1 had been polished by Mr. Fujishiro, himself. In the end the bottom line remains the same, buy the sword, not the paper.

[sensei215]

I bought a small wakazashi in shirasaya about 35 years ago in NYC. The nagasa was just under 17 inches and shinogi zukuri It had been brought to Sotheby's and had been rejected. When I first saw it I was very doubtful at the time because of the mei. It had been signed by Masahide and his son Sadhide. About a week later the owner came in with the sword again and produced a set of papers that he had received with the sword when he bought it in Japan.They were by Fujishiro. At the time he didn't think they had any importance. Needless to say I bought the sword.

I had it for awhile and traded it for something more to my liking at the time.

 

Tim S

[Jean]

It had been brought to Sotheby's and had been rejected

 

Beati pauperes spiritu ....

[Veli]

Thank You for the excellent comments! Although we should concentrate on the blade and not the papers, we should also keep in mind the beginners (to which group I still count myself) who buy blades on-line; reliable papers (including Fujishiro) usually prevent them burning their fingers too painfully.

 

BR, Veli

[nagamaki - Franco]

Although we should concentrate on the blade and not the papers, we should also keep in mind the beginners (to which group I still count myself) who buy blades on-line; reliable papers (including Fujishiro) usually prevent them burning their fingers too painfully.

 

Hi, cynicism and kantei remain two of a nihonto collector's best friends, remember, the 2nd step in kantei according to Sato sensei is determining quality. In fact when it comes to origami and nihonto it can very easily be the case that the paper only guarantees that the collector could be making a more expensive mistake.

[Veli]

Dear Franco,

 

I somehow got an impression that you might know of an interesting, real life example how a sword with seemingly reliable (recent?) papers has turned out to be a really bad disappointment. If so, could you please share the story with us? Nothing beats practical examples when we want to learn something... However, in order not to increase the workload of our excellent moderators, let us be limited to disappointments due to incomplete or wrong information in the papers, or quality grossly inconsistent with the requirements of the papers, and furthermore, let us leave the sellers unnamed.

 

BR, Veli

[nagamaki - Franco]

I somehow got an impression that you might know of an interesting, real life example how a sword with seemingly reliable (recent?) papers has turned out to be a really bad disappointment.

 

Hi, what is important here is that collectors learn kantei, which is much, much, more than simply figuring out who made it, so that they can avoid becoming their own real life example of how they mistakenly substituted buying papers instead of buying the sword, which leads to their own disappointment.

[b.hennick]

There is nothing wrong in collecting papers. Perhaps we need a forum for paper collectors rather than sword collectors.

[Jean]

There is nothing wrong in collecting papers.

 

Whatever their use ..

[David Flynn]

While we're on the subject of papers, What about Hon'ami papers. On par with Fujishiro?

[paulb]

Hi David,

I think generally yes but it depends on which one (generation) but Honami have always been highly respected. Certainly I know that papers and sayagaki by Honami Kozon are beleived to be amongst the most accurate.

regards

Paulb

[John A Stuart]

I have an origami by Honami Koho that identifies a wakizashi I have as being by Kanesada. The only problem is it has no oshigata attached. I believe the paper is accurate, but, there is no absolute proof that it is original to the sword. There were rumours that certain appraisers in the past were pressured into giving, shall we say, less than accurate attributions for family heirlooms of powerful families. Naming no names, of course. John

[nagamaki - Franco]

While we're on the subject of papers, What about Hon'ami papers.

 

Hello, what you will find is in some instances current shinsa teams will confirm, validate, and be in complete agreement with the hon'nami paper, in some cases there may be a very slight difference of opinion when it comes down to naming the smith, still in other cases there will be a marked difference of opinion, and still in other instances the hon'ami paper will be completely dismissed as being invalid, as in not genuine.

[Eric H]

I have an origami by Honami Koho that identifies a wakizashi I have as being by Kanesada. The only problem is it has no oshigata attached

On Honami origami's the nagasa of the respective sword is indicated, and if the smith's characteristics are present, and both parameter are conform, why doubt? I have never seen an oshigata attached to Honami papers. BTW is this Honami Koho the famous painter?

Eric

[John A Stuart]

Hi Eric, yes it has that information, but, it could be matched to another sword a similar characteristics. I do not think it has though. I do not know what he did other than this origami, artistry seemed to predominate in the family in one form or another. John