Repairing/Maintaining a modern armor replica: sourcing lacing/painting materials and finding sewing guides

[fleetinbeing]

Hello all, this will be my first post on this wonderful forum, but hopefully not the last. Please be gentle if I do things wrong, as I am new to both the community and to your hobby/profession. Many of the proper terms for both armor parts and for styles/materials/techniques are still beyond me.

 

I purchased this armor on Yahoo Auctions, with no expectation that it would be a proper antique. Honestly I would prefer if it isn't, as I lack the budget and the ability to do justice to an irreplaceable work of art. If I had one, I'd rather give it to a museum where it can be cared for properly.  The price was around $2000 usd.

 

The first image shows the armor as a whole, the remaining ones show elements that I would like to repair "properly" myself, such as an amateur might. My budget for this repair is low but I could spend maybe $100 on materials.

https://imgur.com/a/RvaR7zM

 

Of course, if you'd like more images please ask. I have omitted many of the nicer elements to focus on the worst, and I'd be happy to show off the other, better quality areas.

 

I believe what I have bought is a reasonably high quality reproduction from somewhere in the Showa Era. Even possibly Heisei if it was worn hard. The main elements of the armor show higher levels of detail than in many modern reproductions, particularly on the kabuto, the chest, and the shoulders. However the price is significantly cheaper than newly made armor from the popular shops and it appears to and untrained eye to be more complex than many of the modern reproductions available today. If you think I got swindled I'm happy to hear your opinion, but I'm very satisfied to have this display piece and I have no regrets. I do not intend to wear it for any length of time or activity.

 

My primary questions are however about cleaning and maintenance and updates:

 

1) Second image: Cleaning the under-fabric from the arms: The silk (if it is indeed silk) to which the arm plates are sewn has seen better days. I has a nice pattern that is only barely visible. It's clear that the armor was worn and got wet at some point. The pattern is there under sweat lines and grime, but as it is attached to a bunch of plates and chain mail I don't know if I can use the recommended methods from kimono-cleaning for it.  Question 1: Do you have a recommendation for how that fabric can be cleaned? Do I just use diluted gentle soaps and a toothbrush? Do I use the same process for the dirty tassles on the front of the chest?

 

2) Third image: Replacing failing lacing in many places. As you can see in picture 2, some of the lacing on the arm where it ties in the front is frayed nearly to breaking. I want to replace it with lacing of the correct material and weave that matches the rest.  The mask and the shin guards need new lacing as well, as their lacing was replaced in the past with stuff that does not match... and I'm not sure if the inner lacing on the arms should be replaced, too, as its brown color does not match the midnight blue of the main lacing, nor does it have the same weave. I don't know if it is supposed to be the same material or not. Question 2: Can you link me to a reputable shop for buying replacement lacing for yoroi?  I am not sure where to search for supplies and the shops which supply this undoubtedly are better searched for in Japanese, where my writing ability is not good enough for serious web searching. Question 3: Also is there any guide you can give me on re-sewing the hems on the arm pieces, as the fraying lacing seems to be attached into a seam there. I would like to emulate the same kind of stitching originally used.

 

Edit: I did find this site for lacing but I don't know if they are reputable or not. https://atelier-miya...36f44e80821905713539

 

3) Fourth image: Completely reworking the shin guards. As you can see the shin guards look like crap and seem like below the quality even I could do as a first timer. I'm guessing the original set that were meant for this armor were lost or destroyed. The metal was not painted, nor was it cut or filed straight, the fabric looks and feels like cheap denim, and the stitching looks rough, using a wide, coarse thread.  Of course, building new shin guards from scratch is beyond the time and skill I have for care and maintenance. However I would like to fix the unpainted metal by shaping it correctly (adding a center bend like the plates on the arms), removing rust, and re-painting and replace the lacing with lacing that matches the rest of the piece. Perhaps I could redo the edges as well in a proper midnight blue/black or brown that again matches better with the rest. I believe matching the lacing and fixing the rusty metal would do that. Question 4: What paint would you recommend for the metal sections? The rest of the armor is in a matte black with little depth to it so I doubt it's any kind of Urushi...but I'm no expert. Would Cashew lacquer be too difficult for a newbie? Would a simple matte black model-making paint with a matte clear acrylic top coating be wrong, assuming my armor has no historical value? There is also a spot or two of rust where paint has flaked on the leg guards that I would like to apply the same process.

 

Thank you for your time spent reading. I eagerly await your thoughts, comments, and answers.

 

fleet

 

 

[Matsunoki]

3 hours ago, fleetinbeing said:

Of course, if you'd like more images please ask

I can only see one image?

[fleetinbeing]

1 hour ago, Matsunoki said:

I can only see one image?

Sorry for the confusion. The imgur link in my post (the line directly above the one you quoted) contains the images. I wasn't sure if multiple images would have an easy time staying under the max size limit the forum imposes on me.

[uwe]

Can’t notice any serious problems in your pictures. Shin-guards (suneate) are in quite ok condition, except the “missing” lacquer. Cashew is ok, but consider, if you like to give the iron parts a lacquer coating, you have to disassemble the plates from the fabric (ieji)!

 

Cleaning the fabric of the sleeves (kote) is a problem because you have to protect the iron parts, especially the chain mail (kusari) in order to prevent rust. Are you sure it’s dirt? Or rather faded colors? 
 

For spare parts, like lacing (odoshi-ge) you can look here for example: https://shop.samurai...age/2?v=3a52f3c22ed6

 

 

[fleetinbeing]

               Thank you, Uwe.  I'm surprised to see you recommend them, as their lacing is much cheaper than others and is mentioned as not being silk.    Perhaps that would make it last longer, though.    I don't think their darkest blue will match the almost-black of the lacing used on my armor, and I worry I would have to use black or try to darken their dark blue.  I think not matching the color would be a dealbreaker for me, so i cant use them.

 

 

If I could match the color then I can see some advantages to more durable lacing...if cotton is more durable.  

 

 

       Regarding the sleeve fabric, it definitely has darkening lines like it was soaked or sweated in. I don't know for sure that it's got much dirt but it seems much darker than it should be in many places, consistent with it being dirty. The whole armor is considerably dusty and will need a damp cloth and toothbrush cleaning if nothing else.  

[fleetinbeing]

Is https://atelier-miya...36f44e80821905713539 a reputable seller?  It seems good to me except they don't sell less than 10m at a time and I think I only need 2m or so.

[uwe]

Your welcome!

Note, I didn’t “recommend” them, I merely showed you a possibility to source odoshi and other DIY parts. Because you are apparently situated in Japan, you should have more options over there.
Cotton is of course much more durable than silk. However, I don’t know what was used on your armor.
You mentioned the color of the lacing and I got your point in this regard, but there is also a trend in restoring real Japanese armor keeping the restored parts visible. Furthermore, silk and cotton as also urushi changing color with age due to several influencing factors. Anyway, we are talking about a replica, so it’s up to you!

 

[fleetinbeing]

Thanks uwe.  Unfortunately because i want to match the color i cant use them. It sounds like youre saying there is no reputation difference between lacing vendors?  I guess I will roll some dice to buy lacing. Unfortunately being in Japan doesn't help much with finding vendors for things until you can write.

 

Then regarding my other questions, it seems you're saying there is no guidance on how seam stitching is done, cashew lacquer is ok but so are other paints, and there isn't a known common way to clean the sleeve fabric. Is that right?

 

I am starting to see that it may be a protracted research process just to find the basic materials to fix my armor. In some hobbies the enthusiast forums keep lists of the most trusted/best parts suppliers, and I was hoping that might be the case here.

 

Thanks for your help, hopefully some others will chime in as well.

[uwe]

Another vendor: https://www.namikawa....com/product-list/24

 

“Then regarding my other questions, it seems you're saying there is no guidance on how seam stitching is done, cashew lacquer is ok but so are other paints, and there isn't a known common way to clean the sleeve fabric. Is that right?”

Right, not as far that I know!
Maybe others have an idea. To be honest, I’m not really familiar with reproduction armor. So it might be worth to contact “Iron Mountain” (Michael Asterita) or the guys from “Maruhide” for advice….

And Anthony’s site for more information: https://sengokudaimyo.com/

[fleetinbeing]

Thanks, yeah that site seems like it will be the best information available, but it gives no details on how the hem stitching is done.

 

I think I will need to partly dismantle a piece before I understand how to put it back together. Probably the shin guards as I want to re-hem those entirely anyway.

[kissakai]

I had to disassemble part of mine to see how is done

 

[fleetinbeing]

Followup: I found this article from the British museum useful because it lists their techniques for doing some cleaning as well as maintaining lacquers and some fabrics. Didn't answer all my questions such as how to stabilize rust or spot-clean silk but it's a start for others who may be in my position.

 

https://www.britishm...-suit-samurai-armour

[uwe]

Thanks for sharing!

Not much insight, though. On the other hand, glad to see that a museum makes so much effort to preserve and display such a piece 

[Brian]

Just for us non-armour guys. The first post started off wondering if it's indeed all repro, then the thread continued as though that was answered.
I didn't see anyone confirming that everything there is clearly post 1900. I assume so, but have we clearly identified that all parts are modern?
Also, I think that there are quite a few who know the in's and out's of restoration, but just like swords, I expect everyone is hesitant to give advice in case it encourages novices to work on genuine armour, which risks damaging it much more.
I suppose giving tutorials on how to do it would lead to many thinking they can haul out their old pieces and "give it a go"
I assume it's like telling someone how to play with patination on their old tsuba.So I can understand the lack of "how to" answers.

[Luc T]

On 6/3/2024 at 8:16 PM, Brian said:

Just for us non-armour guys. The first post started off wondering if it's indeed all repro, then the thread continued as though that was answered.
I didn't see anyone confirming that everything there is clearly post 1900. I assume so, but have we clearly identified that all parts are modern?
Also, I think that there are quite a few who know the in's and out's of restoration, but just like swords, I expect everyone is hesitant to give advice in case it encourages novices to work on genuine armour, which risks damaging it much more.
I suppose giving tutorials on how to do it would lead to many thinking they can haul out their old pieces and "give it a go"
I assume it's like telling someone how to play with patination on their old tsuba.So I can understand the lack of "how to" answers.

Dear Brian,

yes, the set is 20st century.   A popular repro set.   Easy to recognise, because there are several popping up from time to time.   Nice as a display, but no historical value.

in case of historical armors, it is an illusion to do correct restoration yourself, without a serious study of the needed techniques, styles, regions and periods.  Also the use of the right materials is paramount.   Even choosing the correct size of the silk laces is a serious matter.

restoration can easily turn out into destruction.