Thekirsh Posted October 7, 2009 Report Posted October 7, 2009 Hi guys, Just wanted to know if anyone can shed some light on the mei/kanji in the attached photo. Its really strange looking and I,m guessing was added by someone later. I think the second one is "kore" and the forth "shi"? It is on a very rough wak that looks like its in satsuma rebellion fittings. Thanks Simon Quote
george trotter Posted October 7, 2009 Report Posted October 7, 2009 Hi Simon...good that you had a go at translation...it is a hard one. I think it is, top to bottom: Mu (or Bu) no (or kore) ? yon (or shi) Mu/Bu = military No = of ... (or Kore = this) ...?... Yon = 4 (or Shi = 4) So it seems to say "Military ... 4" Sorry...too hard... Regards, George. Quote
Thekirsh Posted October 7, 2009 Author Report Posted October 7, 2009 Hi George, I forgot to mention that the habaki also has the last two kanji crudely etched into it. Maybe its some sort of “stocktake”? I originally thought it might have been a patriotic slogan. Thanks for the help Simon Quote
saipan59 Posted October 8, 2009 Report Posted October 8, 2009 My guess is "BU NO 94". A possible interpretation is "#94, produced for the military". This would sorta fit given that the habaki has the same "94" on it - it would be like an "assembly number", as found on the various main parts of a Japanese military firearm. But I could be wrong... Pete Quote
george trotter Posted October 8, 2009 Report Posted October 8, 2009 Hi Simon and Pete, yes could be what you say...could we see the habaki? If there are identical strokes to the #3 kanji in the mei it could be a character as #3 looks like 9 if you view 9 in a mirror (back to front)...also it could conceivably be hachi = 8 back to front...ie...Bu no 84. The military numbering you suggest is not impossible, as the mei looks fairly recently cut...perhaps c.1877 at the time of the Satsuma Rebellion when things military were transitioning to "moderm Western practise"....but I'm only speculating...it would be good if Moriyama san would take a look. Regards, George. Quote
saipan59 Posted October 8, 2009 Report Posted October 8, 2009 We're pretty sure it's not an "8". But it's not a very good "9" either... It could be a non-numeric kanji that has been simplified badly (such that it is now only clear to someone who already knew what it said). Pete Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted October 9, 2009 Report Posted October 9, 2009 Have you considered the old Kanji for 'one'? 弌 Quote
saipan59 Posted October 9, 2009 Report Posted October 9, 2009 Have you considered the old Kanji for 'one'? 弌 Doesn't seem likely that someone would carve the horizontal stroke in such a 'vertical' way, but who knows... Either way, if it's a number, then there's nothing else to learn from it - it's just a number. As George said, it would be very helpful to see the habaki, if indeed the same two kanji are written on it - it might become clear what we are looking at. Pete Quote
Thekirsh Posted October 9, 2009 Author Report Posted October 9, 2009 Thanks for the help guys, Here's the habaki. I dont have the sword in hand yet so cannot do any better photo wise. Cheers Simon Quote
george trotter Posted October 9, 2009 Report Posted October 9, 2009 Hi Simon, The Habaki matches so it is deliberate...you know, it also looks like "20" (ie. two Ju's side by side with one stroke joining them as "20"...quite common. This would make the sword "Military, number 24". As you say...if it's just a number there is nothing more to learn. Moriyama san....? regards, George. Quote
Nobody Posted October 9, 2009 Report Posted October 9, 2009 I give up. I cannot understand the meaning of the inscription, because I cannot read the 3rd character. There are other similar kanji which have not been suggested yet. 兀 – kotsu (not pi ) 丌 - ki 廾 - kyo Quote
Thekirsh Posted October 9, 2009 Author Report Posted October 9, 2009 Thanks again guys Here's a much more interesting photo of the omote. I think I have got it but am unable to find any references. Signed "Yamashiro Daijo Fujiwara Kunihira"? Gimei The Hira kanji has two strokes that seem to be going the wrong way.Maybe it's not Hira? I would appreciate it if anyone had an oshigata to post. Cheers Simon Quote
Jacques Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 Hi, Yamashiro Daijo Fujiwara Kunihira (kanbun) worked in Bungo province, belongs to the Takada school Quote
Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 Oh, good ol' Hawleys... (1661 = Kanbun) Quote
Jacques Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 Hi, Like i don't own the "good old" hawley, i'm glad to see it confirms my words. I would appreciate it if anyone had an oshigata to post. i'm afraid the only one i have (toko taikan) is not workable. Quote
saipan59 Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 The Hira kanji has two strokes that seem to be going the wrong way.Maybe it's not Hira? It is Hira. The alternate slant of the strokes in "Hira" is OK - it can be written either way, according to my "5 styles" kanji dictionary. Note that the oshigata from Tokunou is the same. Pete Quote
Jacques Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 Hi, If it can be helpful Kunihira signed first Yoshiyuki. Quote
Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 Hi, Like i don't own the "good old" hawley, i'm glad to see it confirms my words. I would like to purchase the source you've taken the info from. Which one is it, being not Hawley ? Care you to share ? I imagine the scan is TK202 as quoted in the Hawley. I'm interested in cross references so I wonder if your source quoted it too. Quote
Jacques Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 Hi, I would like to purchase the source you've taken the info from. Which one is it, being not Hawley ? Care you to share ? Of course, Have a look below Beginning: Continuation Book is TOKO TAIKAN by Tokuno Kazuo Published by Kogei Shuppan Quote
Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini Posted October 11, 2009 Report Posted October 11, 2009 Book is TOKO TAIKAN by Tokuno Kazuo Published by Kogei Shuppan Ah, yes, the reference quoted by Hawley I mentioned before. Already on the shelf. Usually one search for the reference number on Hawley to pick up the right smith among the several available and then use the book indicated (TK in this case, Toko Taikan). But probably as far as Toko Taikan goes, Rich's translated list is faster. Quote
Thekirsh Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Posted October 12, 2009 Thanks everyone once again for all the information. Seeing how others reference a smith is very helpful and am glad i recently purchased a "hawleys" from a board member( still in transit) Cheers Simon Quote
saipan59 Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 Seeing how others reference a smith is very helpful and am glad i recently purchased a "hawleys" from a board member( still in transit)Cheers Simon You may want to get "ToShoW" also, if you don't already have it. Not as many smiths listed as Hawley's, but a LOT more search/sort options. And it's a free download. And I wrote it (I had to drop that in there... Pete Quote
Brian Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 Pete's software can of course be downloaded from http://www.geocities.com/saipan59/toshow/ Be sure to read the readme.txt, which is quoted here for convenience: Download the 4 files: TOS600.EXE.ZIP KAT600.EXE.ZIP TOS6DOC.EXE.ZIP SKY.ZIP Create a folder on your C: drive named "Sword6". Put the 4 files into C:\Sword6 . Rename each of the first 3 files by removing the ".zip" from the filename (it's there so that browsers don't complain about downloading EXE files). Execute the TOS600.EXE and KAT600.EXE and TOS6DOC.EXE files. Each will expand into a number of other files. Double-click on the SKY.ZIP file, and extract the Sky16v3c.dll file from it (put it into the C:\Sword6 folder with the others). NOTE: A lot of folks had trouble with the Sky16v3c file previously. Apparently, some systems wouldn't allow it to be renamed. Now, it is a normal ZIP archive that contains the real file. To run ToShoW, execute TOSHOW.EXE . Send questions to saipan59@att.net . Thanks, Pete Quote
saipan59 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Posted October 14, 2009 Pete's software can of course be downloaded from http://www.geocities.com/saipan59/toshow/[...stuff deleted for brevity...] Send questions to saipan59@att.net . That Geocities location is going away within a couple of weeks. I can e-mail a single ZIP file that contains everything on request. Also, that e-mail address is no longer valid. Please use the following (remove spaces, change 'at' to @, and 'dot' to .) : saipan59 'at' Q 'dot' com. Pete Quote
Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini Posted October 14, 2009 Report Posted October 14, 2009 If you get really desperate about finding Toshow, it's available on my website too, download page. http://xoomer.virgilio.it/tsubame/ZZZZZZ_DOWNLOADS.htm Quote
Jacques Posted October 14, 2009 Report Posted October 14, 2009 Hi, Simon, I you can post a good picture of the Kunihira's mei,it can be helpful to compare with this one, Yohiyuki being his first artname. Quote
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