Request for identification

[Steve C]

Hello, and thanks for the add. This sword belonged to my father-in-law, now deceased. According to my mother-in-law, his father was a USN officer and brought it home after WW2 (along with an original model year Savage 22-410). I know nothing more than that. I was hoping the experts here could identify this sword. It measures 99cm overall from end of scabbard to pommel. The blade length (nagasa?) is 71.5 cm. The blade is sharpened along the entire length, and is magnetic. I can't see any hamon/hada anywhere. The scabbard appears to be brown painted steel. It is also magnetic. There is a thumb-actuated retention clip in the handle. The handle is not wrapped. It is composed of concentric discs of what appears to be leather or similar material. Each disc can be shifted slightly, as the handle is loose. I can't see any way to disassemble the handle to expose the tang, and I wasn't sure that would be a good idea anyway. Thanks, Steve. 

[Steve C]

And no numbers or stamps anywhere.

[Bruno]

Removing the handle is a good idea to help identifying the sword.

 

 

[ROKUJURO]

Steve,

welcome to the NMB forum!

Your blade might be an older one from the SAMURAI era, but to know this, it is necessary to see the NAKAGO. Depending on where you live, you might have one of our expert members near your place to show him the blade and possibly have him remove the handle. 
Another possibility would be to bring the sword to a blade show where one of the informed dealers will certainly help you.

The blade has seem some corrosion in its life, and a well-meaning person tried to sand it away which is a bad idea and causes damage to the blade.

While you try to find help, keep moisture away from the blade and apply a very thin coat of low-viscosity machine oil as protection. Take care that no excess oil finds its way into the SAYA (scabbard)!  

[John C]

7 hours ago, Steve C said:

t is composed of concentric discs of what appears to be leather or similar material.

Steve:

In the knife world, it would be a stacked leather handle. Common with knives. You may find the rings will tighten or loosen based on the humidity level, unless glued. Is there a mekugi (pin) or screw holding the handle on?

John C.

[Shamsy]

The leather handle was likely done by whomever captured the sword. A fair few service men did this sort of 'trench art' with leather, plexiglass and decorative knot-work. Plenty of knives, bayonets and a few swords exhibit this sort of work. It's part of the swords history and while not 'authentic' to the original sword, I'd leave it there as part of the koshirae. If you can remove the handle as suggested, you can learn a lot more about the actual blade.

[Steve C]

Thanks for taking a look, and I will certainly follow up on the advice to seek a local expert who may be able to safely disassemble the handle to reveal more possible information on the tang. There is no pin anywhere, just stacked rings. However, I am sharing a close up of the pommel, where it appears to my inexpert eye that the tang has been peened into the pommel. Fake? Modified later by a serviceman?

[Bruce Pennington]

Steve,

For the record, your sword, other than the leather stack, was a very nice Type 98 Japanese officer sword (gunto).  Could be a Type 94, with that centered release button, but the thinner tsuba (handguard) probably pushes it to a 98.  @PNSSHOGUN, John may confirm that for us.

 

I like the nice, fat seppa (spacers) and find them more often on upgraded gunto.  In other words, the original officer paid a little more money for the sword. (Officers had to buy their own swords).  You can see how they originally looked on Ohmura's excellent site Army Commisioned Officers Shingunto.

 

That round spot on the end, to me, looks like a filler or plug, probably covering the access to the end of the tang and how it's secured.  If there's no obvious way to get that plug out, and still want to explore it further, you might find a metal/machine shop and ask their opinion.

[Steve C]

Thanks, Bruce! That is encouraging. I like that possibility better than a well-meaning but inappropriate serviceman's modification.

[Michaelr]

Steve, just my opinion, leave it alone. Enjoy what you have, the way it is. Original No but if you destroy any part while removing it it will never even be back to what you had. Remember the old saying we all heard when we were kids” curiosity killed the cat “ well you may destroy some history and a family treasure, only to find that you have a rather common type 98, in not great shape, with not a lot of value that you can never restore even back to its post exploritory surgery. I would rather enjoy it for what it is and be honored to have it with the history you have than change it in any way. Oh yea by the way, it is yours do what you wish so why not keep it the way it is and just keep it in the back of your mind or as part of the story that under all that leather lurks on of the long lost treasures of Japan, that all would love to own and it is all yours. Think about it as the sword has been around for a long time and you don’t have to make a decision soon. Clean it up, hang it up, enjoy it the way it is and if you decide to proceed later then what ever decision you make will be the right one with no reqrets. 
  MikeR

[Brian]

Imho, there is little chance that they didn't modify the tang to be able to secure it. Maybe threaded it, maybe peened it over and then added the cap. Doubt the tang is original with that fitting, so leaving it isn't a bad idea.
An even better one is finding a friendly dentist or doctor who will X-ray it for you. Then you'll see how it's attached.

[Steve C]

Thanks everyone for the excellent advice and assistance in identification. I do have access to a fluoroscopy machine and will report back if any information on the tang can be revealed.

[Steve C]

This should be my last post. The fluoroscope image shows where the tang could have been secured in the traditional manner, but you can also clearly see the tang is threaded. I wish I could know if this option was even available to a Japanese officer ordering a sword, or if this is definitely the work of someone in later possession. Thanks to all of you for your responses. This has all been very illuminating. No pun intended.

[Brian]

Definitely done later. Maybe even welded on. Wouldn't be difficult to unthread, and reshape the bottom of the nakago. But that ruins it as militaria and many would say leave it as is. If it were mine, I'd clean the blade with alcohol and maybe use some uchiko over time. IF it has signs of being a decent traditionally made blade, with nice hamon and hada visible, I'd consider seeing if it's signed. But if it's a Showato, I'd leave it as is. Just my 2c.

[Bruce Pennington]

I'm the kind of guy that HAS to take things apart, Ha!  Have you tried to unscrew the end-cap?

 

The Japanese did make threaded nakago posts on their kyu-gunto and Type 32s.  I've never seen it done with the WWII gunto though.

 

In any case, you have quite a unique sword there.  Collectable in it's uniqueness.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Now you got me going!  Here's one made in the 1600's.  Posted by @SRDRowson HERE.

[Steve C]

I made a modest effort to unscrew the cap but didn't want to chooch on it too hard. Cool stuff! For now, this is going into storage. Thanks again, everyone!