Rust Resistant Steel blade stamps Kai Gunto

[robinalexander]

Greetings. 

 

This may well have been raised before but I will put it up anyway. Maybe a question for Bruce @Bruce Pennington

Bruce, I have been through your VERY good reference tool 'Stamps of the Japanese Sword' but I admit, have not done any lengthy research through NMB generally.

 

I have a rust resistant blade in standard Kai Gunto mounts (although everything, and I mean everything, is numbered 89). It's mumei with no 'arsenal' stamps.  However, it does have stamps on each side of the nakago and I have no real idea what they are.

 

1. Picture 1.... A WA stamp that would indicate 1941 ? (page 27 of your publication above).  This is followed by number '119'.

 

2. Picture 2.....On reverse side of nakago a small hollow 'figure 8' stamp (Picture 2)

 

3. And while I'm at it, picture 3 also shows a small stamp on the tsuba

 

As I mentioned, every single piece of this package is numbered 89.

 

Any views would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

Rob

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

2 hours ago, robinalexander said:

Greetings. 

 

 

 

 It's mumei with no 'arsenal' stamps.  

1. Picture 1.... A WA stamp that would indicate 1941 ? (page 27 of your publication above).  This is followed by number '119'.

 

 

 

That ワ mark could be from 川越製造所 Kawagoe factory under  東京第一陸軍造兵廠 Tokyo first arsenal.

 

[robinalexander]

Thanks Trystan.... the lack of any more common navy arsenal stamp (Toyokawa) made me wonder about this.

 

I note the 'hollow figure 8" mark (pic 2) is mentioned in Bruce's paper (page 51) as unknown Kai stamp.  So apparently no change there.

 

I also assume the mark on the Tsuba (pic 3) is a makers mark.

 

Rob

[Bruce Pennington]

Hi Rob!  Thanks for the post!

1.  That chart you referenced on pg 27 of the Stamps Doc is specific to the SMR Mantetsu operation.  To my knowledge, no one else was using the I Ro Ha sequential system.

2.  That little stamp, to me, looks like a gourd, and now, we have a possible shop!  I'll do some digging to see if I can found out where the original one came from, but I'm not usually very good at finding stuff like that!

3.  I agree, the stamp on the tsuba looks like it could be a shop logo.  @IJASWORDS - Neil any chance of finding a page in your book on the 川越製造所 Kawagoe factory?

 

Thanks @BANGBANGSAN for the possible shop name!

[robinalexander]

Bruce @Bruce Pennington appreciate the additional information and research possibilities. 

 

Although the blade is in quite good condition, the fact is that its a real 'plain Jane' Showa-To and while better blades may be more deserving of the research, its great to be able to identify the various markings.

Rob

[Bruce Pennington]

17 minutes ago, robinalexander said:

plain Jane' Showa-To and while better blades may be more deserving of the research

Rob,

My research is on the practice of stamping numbers, and covers Army, Navy, Showato, gendaito, and zoheito.  It's the stamping that I chase.

 

Here's the other one.  Just discovered that it's stamped "384" and I didn't have that numbered blade in the chart!  By the looks of it, it's likely a stainless blade too.

[robinalexander]

Yep that's the one and stainless alright.

 

Found this old link as well in regard to the 'gourd' stamp.

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

7 hours ago, robinalexander said:

 

Found this old link as well in regard to the 'gourd' stamp.

Thanks Rob!  Records annotated now.

[BANGBANGSAN]

@Bruce Pennington

Bruce

I'm afraid there is no "shop logo" for 川越製造所 Kawagoe Factory. It is not a civilian contractor shop for the Army, but the factory owned and operated by IJA locate in 埼玉県上福岡市 Saitama Prefecture Kamifukuoka city.

 https://senseki-kikou.net/?p=9774&amp=1 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

6 hours ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

 

I'm afraid there is no "shop logo" for 川越製造所 Kawagoe Factory.

Ok Trystan.  So the logo on the tsuba must be from another shop that made the fittings.  I'll file it in "Unknown".

[BANGBANGSAN]

12 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Ok Trystan.  So the logo on the tsuba must be from another shop that made the fittings.  I'll file it in "Unknown".

The "8" mark maybe from Hiroshima Arsenal 

 

 

[robinalexander]

Well given all info so far Trystan,  thats got to be a real  possibility. 

 

Nice work.

[Bruce Pennington]

Certainly a possibility.  Never saw that arsenal mark before. 

I have 2 concerns, though.

1.  I have never seen an arsenal inspector mark at the end of a nakago.  But I have seen religious symbology and other markings there.  On both of these, there is a small 'stem' at the top like a gourd:

 

2. Has anyone every heard of the Hiroshima Arsenal processing swords?

[robinalexander]

Is it possible there are more of these tiny 'gourd' stamps on nakago's that haven't yet been noticed?

[Bruce Pennington]

11 hours ago, robinalexander said:

Is it possible there are more of these tiny 'gourd' stamps on nakago's that haven't yet been noticed?

Sure.  Part of my frustration in tracking these things, is guys often don't post a photo of the entire nakago when asking about a mei translation.  Sometimes simply discussing a stamp will generate 1 or 2 more from guys reading posts, though.

[robinalexander]

Where's there's life, theres hope. 

[nightkid]

On 7/3/2022 at 9:52 AM, BANGBANGSAN said:

The "8" mark maybe from Hiroshima Arsenal 

 

 

is there any possibility that these stamps can marked on type 98 gunto's tsuba and seppa?

Edited March 26 by nightkid

[Bruce Pennington]

5 hours ago, nightkid said:

Is there any possibility that these stamps can marked on type 98 gunto's tsuba and seppa?

Yes.  It's not common, however we have seen various arsenal inspector stamps on tsuba, seppa, kabutogane, and haikan.

 

The Gourd - I have 5 blades on file with it, all navy stainless blades

The "8" - I have 2 on file, both army; a Hidetoshi, and a Kanemichi

Kanemichi

 

Hidetoshi

 

[nightkid]

38 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Yes.  It's not common, however we have seen various arsenal inspector stamps on tsuba, seppa, kabutogane, and haikan.

 

The Gourd - I have 5 blades on file with it, all navy stainless blades

The "8" - I have 2 on file, both army; a Hidetoshi, and a Kanemichi

Kanemichi

 

Hidetoshi

 

hello sir! thank you for answering! i saw this gunto seppa and this one has star stamp on it. i look around stamp dicuss forum but i still can't find any information but this writing may be the answer. so this can be made by heijo arsenal? i really appreciate your answer. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Kim,

I have fittings, mostly tsuba & seppa, on file with three different star stamps.  Yours is only the second example I've seen with the larger star with crossed points.  Here is the other:

 

Here is an example of a medium sized star:

 

And I have several with these small stars:

 

No one knows who used them, but I've always guessed them to be inspectors of the koshirae shops that made the fittings.  Your idea about the Heijo factory is interesting, as they were known to make Type 95s late in the war.  But this star is not one of the examples on the chart as it has cross strokes on each star tip.  Doesn't rule it out, as even on that chart, they have a variant star indicated.  All we can do, for now, is guess.  But your guess is as good as mine at this point.

[nightkid]

2 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Kim,

I have fittings, mostly tsuba & seppa, on file with three different star stamps.  Yours is only the second example I've seen with the larger star with crossed points.  Here is the other:

 

Here is an example of a medium sized star:

 

And I have several with these small stars:

 

No one knows who used them, but I've always guessed them to be inspectors of the koshirae shops that made the fittings.  Your idea about the Heijo factory is interesting, as they were known to make Type 95s late in the war.  But this star is not one of the examples on the chart as it has cross strokes on each star tip.  Doesn't rule it out, as even on that chart, they have a variant star indicated.  All we can do, for now, is guess.  But your guess is as good as mine at this point.

thank you sir. that seppa has number 17 and the tsuba also has same stroke star stamp and number 17 and katakana マ and ホ. i think katakana can be inspection stamps. i really excited to your picture whick has numbering 18. thank you for sharing your knowledge.

Edited March 26 by nightkid

[Bruce Pennington]

Wow!  These were possibly side by side in the production!  I say possibly, because over several years, a shop likely restarted numbering sequences.  Pretty cool, though.

[Bruce Pennington]

On 7/2/2022 at 5:52 PM, BANGBANGSAN said:

The "8" mark maybe from Hiroshima Arsenal 

 

 

 

Trystan, or @Kiipu Thomas - do you have any documents or info on the Hiroshima Arsenal?  Did they have anything to do with swords?

[BANGBANGSAN]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

 

Trystan, or @Kiipu Thomas - do you have any documents or info on the Hiroshima Arsenal?  Did they have anything to do with swords?

This is an introduction to the Hiro Naval Arsenal, and it does not mention sword production.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiro_Naval_Arsenal

[Kiipu]

On 3/26/2026 at 3:52 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

do you have any documents or info on the Hiroshima Arsenal?

 

Never heard of a Hiroshima Arsenal; however, the army did have a supply depot in Hiroshima that used the symbol ㋪.

廣島陸軍兵器支廠

[Bruce Pennington]

On 7/2/2022 at 5:52 PM, BANGBANGSAN said:

The "8" mark maybe from Hiroshima Arsenal 

 

 

 

Trystan,

What document is this page from?

[John C]

@Bruce Pennington

Just adding this to "naval stamps" for your information and research. Note the variety of anchor marks.

 

John C.

[John C]

On 3/26/2026 at 3:52 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

do you have any documents or info on the Hiroshima Arsenal?

Bruce: I have this one reference in my files. It's from a post war assessment by Gen. Gardner. This is all that is mentioned in the doc, however Hiroshima was the location of Chugoko Branch HQ and seems to have been command and control; listed as a branch of Osaka arsenal.

 

John C.

Edited Thursday at 11:17 PM by John C
added info

[Bruce Pennington]

14 hours ago, John C said:

; listed as a branch of Osaka arsenal.

That might explain it.  As to the "8" coming from that branch of the Osaka arsenal .... a slight possibility, I guess, but both blades were made by Gifu, Seki smiths, and found in army fittings, so I'm thinking it might need another explanation, like a shop marking.  Verdict is still out, though.

[george trotter]

On 3/27/2026 at 7:58 AM, BANGBANGSAN said:

This is an introduction to the Hiro Naval Arsenal, and it does not mention sword production.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiro_Naval_Arsenal

Not sure if this helps, but my uncle was in the Australian Army Engineers during the occupation of Japan 1946-1949. He was based in a place called Hiro which was not far from Kure. I always thought he worked at Kure but lived at near-by Hiro. Looks like Hiro might have been the place where his unit was stationed and also where they worked at the former Japanese Army (oops, meant to say Navy) arms production facility mentioned in babgbangsan's link.