Emergency Late War Officer Gunto

[Bruce Pennington]

Wow, what a doozy!  Still has cosmoline on it.  Looks like something made for Burmese collaborators, maybe.  Thanks for posting, Chris.

[vajo]

Bruce the Menuki - is saw this kind of menuki but i didn't remember were. Also the Kabutogane looks like something is see before. 

[Kiipu]

Another plain version courtesy of @edgartwib can be seen at the NMB thread below.

New guy with a type 95 and 98?

[Johnaturalstones]

Here is a follow on from the last photos posted of this sword. I finally got it sent over from aus to the uk. I got to the tang and there seems to be some markings on it that looks like mihara ミハラ I cleaned off some of the cosomoline.

I’ll be keeping it on my mantle as a family heirloom. Thought I would post here to see some opinions on it 

[BANGBANGSAN]

1 hour ago, Johnaturalstones said:

Here is a follow on from the last photos posted of this sword. I finally got it sent over from aus to the uk. I got to the tang and there seems to be some markings on it that looks like mihara ミハラ I cleaned off some of the cosomoline.

I’ll be keeping it on my mantle as a family heirloom. Thought I would post here to see some opinions on it 

 

 

 

I think it's ジヤワ Java sword.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

On 1/14/2021 at 7:19 AM, Dave R said:

...and.

Found an almost identical on this Auction Site.  Same kabutogane and tsuba.  The stamp is just barely visible in this shot:

The rest:

[Bruce Pennington]

A showa stamped Yoshinao in late war fittings.  I do have 3 '45 dated showa-stamped blades on record (from a Cox survey, no photos), so this could have been made in '45.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks to @John C for bringing this to our attention.  A craigslist sale posted HERE.  What's unique is the blue Seki approval sticker on the saya.  The seller says the blade and saya are mismatched because the chuso does not line up with the saya.  

 

I personally say this - We believe the saya with these labels are late war.  We also think "island swords" are late war.  Wouldn't the stickered saya be a logical thing to see on a late-war blade?  To me, they support each other in legitamacy.  

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Just noticed the photos of the late war Yoshinao went dead.  I must have posted photo links rather than the actual photos.  Good reason to always post photos, not links!  Here's the photos from my file:

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Here's a late-war gunto with a nice quality kabutogane, found by @John C on this ebay sale.  Undated Kanenori, with the 3-point Seki paper label.

[Bruce Pennington]

On 11/29/2022 at 8:23 PM, John C said:

Bruce:

Could this be a variation of a late war emergency stamp?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/295367094149?hash=item44c5402f85%3Ag%3AFYQAAOSwGvZjgUs0&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoE2vtf1G0e6%2BYCRzQdr5e1FQNMgrEltgGeArcOmW7ZbSnRt2aUALk6H6UmPegZB3KZaTm9VpsjRGd%2BJcf9Bp8DOQiviWJgLA%2BQsAEM5XixxkYgVQ0IXqhjD%2FMWgB%2FzNRiGrMzBRb4VmyPhekf5%2BHOvMmhmIHPntWMq4xGMKSBBBjYDx6lZyE7fjUZxHj0%2FF%2BtKq6H3IjPf5QJygz0VMdhI4%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR8iMk-iYYQ&LH_ItemCondition=4|10

 

John C.

 

@BANGBANGSAN

 

I know we have another thread with several of these, but I cannot find it.  I've been filing these as "Manchurian".  This seller is claiming them to be Sumatran.  I think they are wrong and we are right about them, but it is found AT THIS AUCTION

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

 

@BANGBANGSAN

 

I know we have another thread with several of these, but I cannot find it.  I've been filing these as "Manchurian".  This seller is claiming them to be Sumatran.  I think they are wrong and we are right about them, but it is found AT THIS AUCTION

 

 

 

 

The kanji on the tang is Chinese "順“， not  Indonesian。

[Bruce Pennington]

Found this one on this California Auctioneers auction

[MeijiVet_88]

On 11/9/2024 at 9:39 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

Found this one on this California Auctioneers auction

I also have another to add to this research thread. 

Except mine doesn’t have any stamps anywhere. The patina and age seems to be appropriate for the time. And the Leather field cover has also fallen apart already.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks, Seth!  No numbers or stamps on the blade, either under the habaki or just outside of it?  I ask because I have 2 on file with similar shaped tsuba, and they have a kanji + numbers just outside the habaki.

 

How about a full length shot?

[Spartan117]

@Bruce Pennington I have a similar one. No markings at all. Age is definitely there. Any info? I can post more info if needed? Sorry new to this forum stuff.

[Bruce Pennington]

@Spartan117

Nice example, Alexis, thanks for posting.  Definitely the Chinese plum rather than a Japanese sakura (cherry blossom).  If you've read this whole thread, then you know as much as we do.  Predominant theory is made in occupied areas for collaborating troops.

[Spartan117]

Thank you @Bruce Pennington ive bought this recently and was concerned that it was a fake. But im totally okay if its a genuine Chinese war version of the type 98.  Ive read the whole thread and you seemed very knowledgeable so i figured id tag you directly. I probably will post full photos and make a new thread to gather more information. But it is indeed an obscure sword.

[Spartan117]

Also does the blade look consistent with a genuine machined sword of the era? Ive tested it to see if its magnetic also checked it with cold blue to see if it was genuine carbon steel. And both check out to be consistent with the material at the time 

[Bruce Pennington]

9 hours ago, Spartan117 said:

does the blade look consistent with a genuine machined sword of the era?

Yes, it matches all the others I've seen.  They appeared to make the blades out of a single steel, probably tempered (?), but no hamon.  Which, unfortunately, is the same way the modern fakers have made them, which makes it quite difficult to separate the fakes from the wartime swords made by occupied peoples.

[Spartan117]

There is a Hamon. If its the wavy line that goes along lower part of the blade, then yes it has one. Its rather skinny and faint. Its included in the photos it may easy to miss. Its not a full picture so sorry for not including a full pic. From what i can explain it the waves are definitely a unique pattern throughout 

[Marcin]

Example with "emergency" stamp

 

 

[MeijiVet_88]

Hey @Bruce Pennington and others. I picked up another tonight. I was wanting some thoughts on it. The seller claimed it was a reproduction. I wasn’t sure if it was a known variant. 

 

It appears to be a late war or emergency issue variant. 

 

Thanks in advance to all for your thoughts on this one. 

[Matsunoki]

The seller was right. Sorry. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Agreed.  All the signs point to modern Chinese.  Hope you didn't pay much.

[MeijiVet_88]

Thank you both. No, it was just pocket change. Darn, I’ll try to do better next time. I thought maybe an occupation piece. Oh well. 

[Kiipu]

That kind of ito wrap was used on some of the occupation swords from Indonesia.

[Matsunoki]

1 minute ago, Kiipu said:

That kind of ito wrap was used on some of the occupation swords from Indonesia

Do you think this is one such sword?

[Bruce Pennington]

Well shoot!  Now that you say that, I had to re-look, and how about that tsuba?!  It's the 'pine tree' tsuba @IJASWORDS and @Bruno brought to light:

 

What initially bothered me was the Like-New canvas cover, then the wrap, then the like-new nakago with wavering shinogi.  But now, with this tsuba, it very well could be late-war, made in Manchuria or other areas.

[Scogg]

I'm not super up-to-date on late war occupation swords. Thoughts on the lack of seppa?
 

The leather on the saya cover with shiny hanger and buckel does not look old enough to me, but I suppose they could have been cleaned...
Best,
-Sam