Rat Tsuba

[luc]

Dear All,

I have been interested in the theme of rats in Japanese art for a while but sword fittings are not my forte, to say the least. A tsuba depicting a rat has just caught my attention but I would really like to hear your opinion before buying it. It is described as iron sukashi tsuba. Dimensions are 55,4x52x4,3mm. Is it genuine, and if so, would you be able to help me with the school and age?

Regards,
Lukasz

[TheGermanBastard]

Genuine. Late Edo. Likely cast. Poor quality. I would not buy it

[ROKUJURO]

Lukasz,

welcome to the NMB!

The original/model was probably quite nice, but this little TSUBA looks indeed cast. Could be a modern tourist item, perhaps 50 years old.. 

[luc]

Thank you very much for your replies, gentlemen. Jean, I think that this could be the model you are talking about: https://collections.mfa.org/objects/27594 I guess that I will have to wait patiently until something of this calibre appears on the market.

[ROKUJURO]

Lukasz,

I am not sure this MFA Boston TSUBA would have the same prize, but yes, I thought of something like that.

By the way, you can  add your signature to your profile, so you need not writing it in each post.

[christianmalterre]

cast ???

 

from where do you point this assumption Gentlemen ? ( your´s expertee´s knowledge perhaps? ) ( LOL!)

 

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i personally do not see any sign of a cast iron here.

.

maybe worn, stumped and aged by patina... ( all right! ) - but cast ????

 

 

( you do by force need further study it seems me.... ! Grey( yes! Grey the book one Grey!) for luck! does offer excellent books! ( where, by the way, this very Tsuba is inside... a published one from a once former British collection!...)

 

well....

[TheGermanBastard]

Talk is cheap. Post a picture of the publisherd Tsuba instead. Then everybody can compare the one in the book with this one http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/29008-rat-tsuba/?do=findComment&comment=294149 and be their own judge wheter it is the VERY SAME Tsuba or maybe this is a copy of an original.

 

Until then I stay with my idiotic assumption that it is likely cast, more certain of poor quality and for sure nothing I would buy. Anybody less stupid than me take your chance to buy a published Tsuba with provenance on eBay from a dealer for dirt cheap money. Good luck!

[TheGermanBastard]

I would love to see a snapshot of that mentioned book page please. Don't be shy!

[Ford Hallam]

For what it's worth, in my opinion, I don't see any reason to regard this tsuba as cast. 

 

And while it may not be a masterpiece it seems to me to be a perfectly competent piece of work that additionally exhibits a number of crisp details that make it clear to my professional eyes that this is not a cast copy.

[PietroParis]

Hello Ford,

 

I am a novice in this field and I am following this thread with great interest, because I would like to learn how to tell whether a tsuba is cast. Could you please elaborate on what are the crisp details in the pictures above that make you conclude that this one is not cast?

 

Thanks in advance for your help! Cheers, Pietro

[ROKUJURO]

I am not able to make enlarged copies of the TSUBA photos, otherwise I would have shown a number of details that I cannot explain how they were made. The coarse surface does not look like forged or chiseled/scraped as it has many tiny protrusions. I don't believe that is from corrosion alone. The same applies to some spots where I can see superficial 'irregularities', e.g. in one ear of the rat. Also the surface of the TAGANE marks is coarse which would not be the case when they were made with a chisel.

But of course I am constantly learning, and I am sure Ford could explain where I am possibly wrong.    

[TETSUGENDO]

Jean,

 

I believe the missing part of the equation here is the nature of lower quality digital photography.  All manner of weird visual "artifacts" are produced that make a judgement from these images extremely difficult.  As one becomes more adept at translating said images it is easier to separate fact from fantasy....although a fair amount of guesswork is still involved.

 

-S-

[ROKUJURO]

Steven,

thank you for mentioning that. I have always to remind myself that we are looking at photos, not objects. Thinking of the famous René Magritte painting 'Ceci n'est pas une pipe'.....

[vajo]

Cast or not, it's a rat. I dont like rats ????

[TETSUGENDO]

Jean,

 

Speaking of trompe l'oeil and "The Treachery of Images", I'm sure René could have rendered a truer facsimile of this tsuba than the photos offered here!

 

-S-

[DRDave]

I need help understanding what I'm seeing in these two photos.  The first shows the rim where the rat's nose touches the foot.  Note the pinkish color, the two kind of solder-like colors, and the smooth, curved line where the surface color ends.  What is going on, there?  The second shows some damage to the rat's leg.  What was the likely cause?  Thanks in advance!

[TheGermanBastard]

I need help understanding what I'm seeing in these two photos.  The first shows the rim where the rat's nose touches the foot.  Note the pinkish color, the two kind of solder-like colors, and the smooth, curved line where the surface color ends.  What is going on, there?  The second shows some damage to the rat's leg.  What was the likely cause?  Thanks in advance!

 

Well ...

 

( you do by force need further study it seems me.... ! Grey( yes! Grey the book one Grey!) for luck! does offer excellent books! ( where, by the way, this very Tsuba is inside... a published one from a once former British collection!...)

 

well....

 

 

http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/tsuba-%26-kodogu/t368-published-iron-sukashi-tsuba-rat-%26-daikon

[vajo]

Luis i really think malterre is joking around about the tsuba. It is obviously cast for me, with all the bubbles on the surface, the missing carvings and the flaws. But I'm not an expert so my opinion is not really worthy.