Prewar70 Posted November 15, 2018 Report Posted November 15, 2018 After some help translating ( was able to purchase and received in the mail today. Suriage, Bizen Yoshii school with the smith's name cut off. The hada is not visible due to condition but the hamon is. Hamon seems consistent (no pun intended) being one of the major kantei points for the school as well as sugata. So does the boshi, which is barely visible in one of the pictures. I'd appreciate your opinions as to age, Nanbokuchu or Muromachi. Any help with mei oshigatas and perhaps I can find a specific smith, if the signature is good. Seems overall like a nicely made sword. Thank you. https://www.nihonto.com/bizen-yoshii-school/ Quote
TheGermanBastard Posted November 15, 2018 Report Posted November 15, 2018 Hello, I was interested in this blade, too. for me it is a text book work ... nice Utsuri. BUT I believe unfortunately only late Muromachi at best. Could also be early Shinto periode. It is a Suriage Wakizashi. Quote
Prewar70 Posted November 15, 2018 Author Report Posted November 15, 2018 Morning. Nagasa is 18.5 inches and sori .5 inches. Quote
Blazeaglory Posted November 15, 2018 Report Posted November 15, 2018 Very nice. Just a thought but do you think the Mei is original? I'm thinking, if that lower Mekugi Ana and Mei are original, than what was the original nagasa? Would seem a short katana. I'm not saying shorter blades don't exist but my instincts tell me the Mei might be added after and the lower mekugi ana was made to look chiseled. I'd venture to say mid Muromachi to late Muromachi with the Mei possibly added. Worst case, maybe its early Shinto. But that's just my first impressions. Other than that, nice fittings and the blade itself looks like it will polish up good Quote
Prewar70 Posted November 15, 2018 Author Report Posted November 15, 2018 Based on my digging around, this sword is in line with shape and size for Muromachi time period. Lifting info from Aoi's website, ground fighting was the thing and shorter swords with smaller nakagos were in style. Katateuchi style. The link below is to a wakizashi that is currently for sale. Nagasa is 20.6 inches, mei placement, and looks ubu, not 100% on that though. So if the blade in question is shortened a few inches with a nagasa of 18.5, the dimensions make sense. My sword could be late Muromachi based on style. Need to see if I can find Yoshii school oshigatas. https://www.aoijapan.com/wakizashi-bizen-kuni-ju-osafune-munemitsu/ Quote
TheGermanBastard Posted November 15, 2018 Report Posted November 15, 2018 Compare the cut of the Mei. Your signature looks like Shinto periode. Quote
Prewar70 Posted November 15, 2018 Author Report Posted November 15, 2018 Luis, you may be right but I'm not following your train of thought. It's not the same smith or school, but you're suggesting that they way the mei is cut can lend it to a time period? Help me understand Quote
Jacques Posted November 15, 2018 Report Posted November 15, 2018 Katana mei (i assume it was a katana wich was suriage) and large kanji lead to Muromachi. Quote
vajo Posted November 16, 2018 Report Posted November 16, 2018 With my little knowledge i would say it is a late Muromachi Katana, mune-machi and suriage nakago. Overall it has a nice shape and it is a interesting sword. Quote
TheGermanBastard Posted November 16, 2018 Report Posted November 16, 2018 Luis, you may be right but I'm not following your train of thought. It's not the same smith or school, but you're suggesting that they way the mei is cut can lend it to a time period? Help me understand Yes it is not. Look at a sufficient number of Shinto signature, let's say 1000, and their cut and compare them to the same number of Koto Mei. The cut of your Mei is very deep, and rather wide with very little wear to it. An avwrage Joe Muromachi periode Mei is less deep, less wide and more worn in general. Again of course there is lost of exception. This is a general observation. I know that Yoshii produced most of its swords during Muromachi periode. Hence by mere guessing Muromachi is the best call. However I do not know when Yoshii school ended. Does somebody know? If it continued to Shinto periode - which I blantly assume - I would like to put your sword into that periode. If it ended late Muromachi then that is my best guess. At the end of the day you would need to get it polished and submit to Shinsa for a more precise oppinion. In terms of periode you may want to submitt it to one of the upcoming US NTHK Shinasa as they will usually give you a precise periode. Quote
vajo Posted November 16, 2018 Report Posted November 16, 2018 Stupid question. Is it worth shinsa? Suriage and munemachi is max hozon. Take the money for a good polish and shira saya and enjoy the blade. It is late muromachi or early shinto, who cares? Quote
TheGermanBastard Posted November 16, 2018 Report Posted November 16, 2018 Well, this depens on the result of the Shinsa. Quote
Jacques Posted November 16, 2018 Report Posted November 16, 2018 Never seen oshigata or a mention of Yoshii swords in Shinto era. Quote
Geraint Posted November 16, 2018 Report Posted November 16, 2018 Dear All. I am intrigued as to how we get to suriage katana. The nagasa is current;y 18.5", at best, given the location of the mekugi ana this has lost 2" so original length around 20.5". Now that might make it katate uchi at best unless we are suggesting that the whole nakago as it is now has been created. If that is the case then what supports that view? Luis makes some good points about the size and condition of the mei but suggests that these are not conclusive. I agree that the mei is cut quite deeply but from what can be seen in the photo there do not appear to be tagane makura. Other than that we have a wide shinogi ji and what appears from the present polish to be a slightly extended chu kissaki. All the best. Quote
nagamaki - Franco Posted November 16, 2018 Report Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) Is it worth shinsa? While there is not as much at stake at lower levels, none the less, all the Juyo advice recently given should be adhered to in principal. Best to understand exactly what you have, and more importantly what you don't have before hand. While experience is a wonderful teacher not everything needs to be learned the hard way, or maybe it does. Unfortunately, for too many buyers/accumulators shinsa is game, imho. Where as for true collectors it's confirmation. Edited November 16, 2018 by nagamaki - Franco 1 Quote
TheGermanBastard Posted November 16, 2018 Report Posted November 16, 2018 Never seen oshigata or a mention of Yoshii swords in Shinto era. https://nihontoclub.com/smiths/NAG85 https://nihontoclub.com/smiths/TAM108 Quote
Jean Posted November 16, 2018 Report Posted November 16, 2018 Jacques did not say they did not exist... Quote
vajo Posted November 16, 2018 Report Posted November 16, 2018 Franco you are right. But i doubt there is much surprise with shinsa which the money make sense. Quote
TheGermanBastard Posted November 16, 2018 Report Posted November 16, 2018 Jacques did not say they did not exist... Neither did I say in my previous post that they exist I suggsted they do, he suggested they do not ... Large Kanji do not lead to Muromachi in my oppinion but later periodes Quote
Jacques Posted November 17, 2018 Report Posted November 17, 2018 https://nihontoclub.com/smiths/NAG85 https://nihontoclub.com/smiths/TAM108 Would like to see a Japanese reference Quote
TheGermanBastard Posted November 17, 2018 Report Posted November 17, 2018 Would like to see a Japanese reference :popcorn: 1 Quote
Jean Posted November 17, 2018 Report Posted November 17, 2018 Jacques, Search Markus Sesko’s book on Japanese swordsmiths, they are listed. Markus works only from Japanese sources. Anyway, all smiths listings are coming from Japanese sources (truism). Upto you to search for Japanese sources. You can always e-mail Markus for his sources. 1 Quote
Karen Posted July 5 Report Posted July 5 Hello, I came across across this message message link because I am researching researching three knives that that I own. The handle looks very much like the one you have displayed, although not exact in placement of the filigre. Would you be able to give me some information? The knives are stamped Escalier De Crystal Paris which makes me think the blade was attached at a later time. The handle is 3 3/4 inches long, and the blade is almost 4.5 inches. You can e-mail me at kscolburn@gmail.com. Best regards, Karen Colburn Quote
Brian Posted July 5 Report Posted July 5 Karen, Short reply as I am a bit hectic. But the story is that towards the end of the Samurai era, when swords were banned, lots of makers were out of work. So they turned their sword fitting crafts to Western products. Using traditional kozuka like this, they sold to the export market who fitted cutlery to them, as Japanese goods were in fashion. Some dealers also bought up vast quantities of fittings, and remounted them with cutlery blades, for sale to the wide markets overseas. Yu find all sorts of quality in these products, but they are legitimate antiques and sometimes sold in sets of 12. This is a typical and nice example, and there is a market for them. Late Meiji period Japanese kozuka-handled French knife. Not top quality, but a nice one. Search Google images for "kozuka handled cutlery" for lots of examples. 1 1 Quote
Geraint Posted July 5 Report Posted July 5 Dear Karen. Just to add to what Brian has written you might enjoy browsing here, https://www.aoijapan.com/kozuka/ Originals are always one sided, the back is flat to allow it to slide into the slot on the scabbard of a Japanese sword. If yours is the same pattern on both sides then the chances are high that it is one of the later ones made by pressing thin metal and then soldering two together. If it has the flat back it may still be a pressing, I rather suspect that yours is. Enjoy the journey. All the best. Quote
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