Gunto Saya

[Mark C]

Hi Everyone,

 

Just looking at a gunto saya that I have and am wondering how they were made.

 

Were they made wrapped around a mandrel and welded/brazed along one edge?

 

Were they made in two pieces and welded/brazed together?

 

Was there a certain amount of hand finishing as they seem to be different lengths, widths and sori's?

 

Anyone got any other thoughts?

 

All the best

 

Mark

[Geraint]

Hi Mark.

 

I have a kaigunto which has had the plating or paint removed and on close inspection it is made from two halves brazed together, obviously lined with wood.  Another shingunto with some chipped lacquer shows the same construction.  In most shingunto the inner scabbard is made from two slips of wood shaped to fit the blade so there would be some possibility of making a limited number  of pressed scabbards fit a number of blades through adjustment of the timber liner.  I have no sources for this  but I am looking forward to others opinions.

 

All the best.

[Bruce Pennington]

This is something that has always interested me, too, Mark. Thanks for bringing it up.

 

Hopefully someone with knowledge on the subject will enlighten us!!!

[Dave R]

 The metal Saya would probably be made the same way as in the West. A metal tube is brazed or welded along the seam, and then forced over a steel mandrel, constantly beaten with rawhide mallets to help form it. Apparently in the Wilkinson sword factory this job was given to the two biggest lads in the factory.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Would they have done the same with the aluminium sayas?

[Dave R]

Why not? It would actually be an easier job with aluminium. 

[Bazza]

Would they have done the same with the aluminium sayas?

Ahhhhhhh - my question exactly.  Aluminium is impossible to solder because of the instant formation of an oxide layer.  Welding is equally difficult, having to be done with an inert atmosphere surrounding the weld, eg., argon arc.  It has always puzzled me how the aluminum saya were made.  In all likelihood they were drawn and formed from seamless tube.

 

BaZZa.

[IJASWORDS]

The mandrel theory is possible, but I have many gunto saya that exhibit wildly different curvature, and cross sections. This would mean a multitude of mandrels? 

[Dave R]

The other possibility is the technique used by brass instrument makers... The tube was filled with lead to prevent collapse, and then bent to shape. I understand that other materials are used now, including frozen soap, pitch and Cerrobend (a tin based alloy made for the job). Probably would work best for tweaking a saya already near to the shape wanted. An interesting article explaining the process here.

 

https://www.robbstewart.com/bending-tubing/

[Mark C]

Hi Everyone,

 

I had an old saya that was vertually bent in half so was junk.

 

It would seem the this one was of two piece construction.

 

You could tig weld ally but they have bothered with such a lengthy process?

I have an ally saya in good condition so I'm certainly not going to section it and find out.

 

All the best

 

Mark

 

[Dave R]

Ahhhhhhh - my question exactly.  Aluminium is impossible to solder because of the instant formation of an oxide layer.  Welding is equally difficult, having to be done with an inert atmosphere surrounding the weld, eg., argon arc.  It has always puzzled me how the aluminum saya were made.  In all likelihood they were drawn and formed from seamless tube.

 

BaZZa.

 

  I would guess that most if not all aluminium saya were made from drawn tube, and otherwise made just like the others, hammered over a mandrill. Got to say though, the alloy used was a well weird one, lots of comment about poor resistance to corrosion. Then again, as commented over the weekend, they were never meant to last forever or even beyond the "duration" for that matter.

 

  Interesting the post above, about two piece construction, which does have advantages for production. Given that the bulk of Shin-Gunto mounts were produced in small workshops, I suspect a wide variety of construction methods would be in use depending on resources, tooling and skills of the producers. Given that they were painted rather than bright steel in finish (as was the norm for Western swords and Kyu-Gunto) there was more room for innovation in methods of manufacture

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