Check Out This Ken Tanto With ?forged? Iron Handle

[ggil]

Although the horimono isn't spectacular, I wanted to share this as I've never seen anything quite like it. It just listed today for $6500.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Old-Japanese-Samurai-Sword-Iron-Mounted-TEMPLE-KEN-w-Horimono-RARE-/201699907412?hash=item2ef6405754:g:cP8AAOSwB09YD756#ht_227wt_1362

[Stephen]

I dont see it as one forged looks like a cast handle added to ken, others? 

[ggil]

Sorry should be more careful: It may not be forged to the handle. Someone who's wife didn't change their eBay password ought to ask the seller his opinion. It's got a week left after all.

[custodian]

It looks like someone tried to imitate or added a modified tibetian ritual dagger handle.

[Geraint]

Dear Chris,

 

The purbha type hilt you reference is actually also quite common in Japanese art, though not so often found as a hilt.  Have a look at the horimono on the sword here, http://yakiba.com/kat_yasatsugu.htm

I think the design traveled with Buddhism to Japan.

 

All the best.

[Marius]

Although the horimono isn't spectacular

 

 

This is a true gentleman's art of understatement

[custodian]

Dear Chris,

 

The purbha type hilt you reference is actually also quite common in Japanese art, though not so often found as a hilt.  Have a look at the horimono on the sword here, http://yakiba.com/kat_yasatsugu.htm

I think the design traveled with Buddhism to Japan.

 

All the best.

Hello Geraint,

 

That is a beautiful piece.  I knew I had a lot to learn, and a short time to do it.  I have seen the phurba incorporated into a lot of things, so this shouldn't have surprised me.

 

Thank you for the example and taking the time to point it out.

 

Chris

[Marius]

http://www.Japanese-buddhism.com/fudo-myo-o.html

 

a a nice picture:

 

http://www.nybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/fudo-myoo.jpg

[custodian]

Thank you, Marius.

 

It would seem to me that the occurance of that style, in real life, is rather infrequent, other than in the form of a horimono.  Were such pieces made primarily for temples?  I find it hard to mentally picture a samurai, or such, using one.   Folks do seem to like them in tattoos, though.

 

(Marius, I sure wish I had thought of your sig. first)

[leo]

This was most probably made for a Japanese priest or a temple. It is not a phurba but a typical ken with a vajra(thunderbolt) handle, both the most common buddhist symbols used in the vicinity of Japanese swords. You see this in many horimono where the dragon usually curls around it.

 

I think it is a rare object . If I look at the proportions  with a 12,1/2" nagasa, it seems a bit "skinny"

 

Martin

[ggil]

Could be made for a shrine, and looted after the war, or a well made Meiji tourist item (but I doubt the latter). If the handle was forged I'd suspect temple item. The seller would know if the handle is forged I bet, or have a good guess at least. They seem to specialize in militaria, and the high price indicates they too believe the thing is VERY well made (as in a temple or priests item, not a tourist piece). To my eyes, it looks too good and is priced too high to be illegitimate. The seller has a no questions return policy, which reinforces my speculation here.

 

As far as it's small size, I'm pretty sure these ritual daggers have almost always been just that: daggers or tanto/small wakizashi length. This one looks "normal" (contradiction in terms) for what I would expect one (with a live blade) to look like. If I was a smith or buyer wanting something like this: I'd specify/craft to these dimetions.

[custodian]

Thank you Martin.

 

My cup of buddhistic symbolism isn't nearly as full as it might be, as it has never been in the higher percentile of items to research.  I was thinking 'thunderbolt' but, well, ... I blew it.  Weren't those blades, originally, progressively wider the nearer one got to the tip? 

 

When I finally think I might have the basics down (wishful thinking), the horimono would be an interesting place to dally for a while.

 

Chris

[custodian]

Thank you Grant.

 

Your informative description and evaluation is fitting for what I think/thought I saw - if it were to be real and, as you say, not a tourist piece.

 

Chris

[ggil]

Informative may be putting it a bit too nicely, but thanks for the compliment.  I'm just like you and trying to learn, but I don't know much at all.  the Japanese were so very crafty that even tourist items can be VERY WELL DONE.  Think about multiple industries being pretty much swept away and society changing too fast (sound familiar?).  people had to make ends meet.  it could be tourist stuff so keep it in mind we don't know for sure.  Speculation is fun for me though.  most folks want to know for sure when it comes to nihonto, probably a self preservation thing.

 

its probably not so wide at the end because making/polishing it would be way harder, and most ken you see aren't SUPER wide (with extra facets/geometry) at the end as pictured in horimono (not in style/fashion of the times and all).  There may be some out there that are super wide at the end, which would be awesome to see. 

[custodian]

I wasn't thinking super wide, but rather a gradual widening of perhaps a 1/2 inch or so, starting about mid-blade.  Please keep in mind, this is from memory (sometimes I think I have some left ) and impression of images I've run across.

 

As far as what the Japanese can and will do, I know well of what you speak.  I've dealt with Japanese antiques - mostly pottery - for over 30 years and collected 'oriental' even longer.  Not too much suprises me any longer, though it still happens on occasion.  Nihonto is completely new to me, though, as far as recognition, evaluation, describing - well, just the whole 9 yards.

 

I appreciate your time and sharing.

 

Chris

[vajo]

I take a look and i didn't see how the handle is fixed on the blade. Can anyone explain it?

For me it looks like the handle is forged as the nakago of the blade.

For me the sword looks very nice

[Marius]

The handle seems to be an integral part of the sword. Just like in the case of kenukigata tachi.

[ggil]

The less than stellar horimono makes me worried

[Marius]

The horimono tells you a lot about the quality of this sword. 

[SAS]

The hilt is probably a separate cast item and the tang peened over at the butt of the hilt to secure the blade. I would be surprised if this was Japanese, but anything is possible and I make no claim to special expertise.

[ggil]

seller just added (as he/she relisted after not selling first go-round) that this is one piece forged, just as I assumed at first.