Ko-Aoe School Mei

[ken kata]

I was not sure if I should post this..

But, here goes...

 

Ref. A - The Connoisseur's Book of Japanese Swords

 

   TYPES OF MEI

 

          Tachi Mei -   "There are a few exceptions, such as those by....and the sword smiths of the Ko-Aoe School, who carved their signatures on the inner side,   

                                   facing the body, when the sword was worn cutting edge downward.."..    Page 71

 

THE AOE SCHOOL

 

           The Ko-Aoe School -   " The other Family group was called the Senoo  "    Page 141.

            Nakago - Aoe-school swords bear a unique two-character signature, which is inscribed on the side opposite that of the usual Tachi. " Page 142

 

Now, may I please ask, is there a chance an Aoe Smith might sign on the traditional side of the Tachi? - (  No disrespect to anyone or references. )

I am hesitant, because I sometimes wonder....  "Do I really what to know?"

 

Yes, I think I got one, but, the Mei, IS, on t he traditional side..   mmmmm...

 

Thanks for viewing guys..

Alton Ken Takata 

( I did do a search..   )

     

 

  

 

 

[Brian]

Fred Weissberg at http://www.nihonto.com/abtartbitchuaoe.htmlsays:
 

 

Ko-Aoe artist's mei in most cases consists of two characters incised with a thick chisel.Tachi-mei in general on works produced by other schools in the Heian and Kamakura periods were chiseled principally on the haki-omote, while the works of the Bitchu-Aoe artists are often found on the haki-ura of the tachi. Nagamei and nenki (dates) are almost never seen.

 

So by saying "often found" that says to me that it is not a hard rule, but a generality. Masatsune is known to have signed tachi-mei too.
 

http://www.touken.or.jp/english/nihon_koto_shi/%2826%29%20No.575.htm
 

 

There are some exceptions in the style of their mei; Ko-Aoe Sadatsugu signs mei in the small or normal size of characters, Tametsugu signs in small characters and Tsunetsugu signs mei on the haki-omote (tachi-mei).

[ken kata]

Thank you Brian,

Thanks for that site's link...

 

The Mei I have is not a "Thick Chiseled".. It is thin lines, no date.

 

I was wondering, if, I actually got a Edo, or, Bakumatsu period Tachi..

I read (from an old NBTHK booklet) , stating,

            " Swords produced by sword smiths of the Hizen Provence between the Shinto and Shinsato times ( Edo and the Bakumatsu period)

                as well as some Shinshinto swords were formed in the Tachi style."

 

My Tachi is short.. only 72.4 cm.    mmm 

 

Thanks ,

Alton

[Mark]

Alton,  post some pictures, we may be able to add some additional observations

[ken kata]

Hello Mark,

Hello Forum..

Hope all of you are having a good peaceful Sunday night...

 

Attached is some photos on the Mei, Nakago and the Hi...

Thanks for viewing.

 

Alton 

 

 

 

 

[Jean]

Noritsune smiths,

 

One Oshu, 2 Bizen, one Bitchu. The Bitchu one was a son of an Ichimonji smith so the hamon must be in accordance (choji midare).

 

Have a look at the mekugi ana. For a mid thirteenth century, they look drilled and not punched. Here are punched mekugi ana:

http://iidakoendo.com/2860/

 

Try Shinsa or Bob Benson.

[paulb]

Alton

I cant see much in the images but what led you down the Ko-Aoe path?

[ken kata]

Hello Jean,

   Looks like I don't have those "Countersunk" type holes..  mmmm "Trouble in Paradise"..

No Choji either...  Strike Two... 

 

Hello Paul, I was looking at the Nihonto Club listings , the name Noritsune, and saw a reference to the Senoo Family and Bitchu

Province.  Then, back to the "Blue Book".. (Ref. A) to read more on the Senoo Family.

 

Maybe I'm on the wrong "Road"...   ... 

[paulb]

Hi Alton

As a basic rule when trying to find out what you have look for conformity rather than exception. If the vast majority of a schools work are signed katana mei and yours is tachi-mei (or vice versa) then it is more likely to be something else than a rare exception. If the mekugi ana are drilled rather than punched then it is likely to be later than Aoe work which pretty much ended at the end of the Nambokucho.

Then look at the shape and the hamon then the jigane (if visible). Then look at the nakago, Most Aoe work has O-sujikai yasurimei. I cant see any on yours but that may just be because it has dissappeared with aging.

The last thing to look at is the mei..

As said I cant see a lot from your images but so far I cant see anything that might suggest Aoe

It is always tempting when you have a signed sword to start with the name and try and work from there. However the sword can often tell you much more than the kanji. Understand the sword first and then go at the signature.

Good luck

Paul

[Jean]

Not so frequent grooves, the small/thin one (soe bi) is still incredibly healthy for a 13th century blade. Could be added later.

[ken kata]

Paul,

Wonderfully stated...

  Thanks for your thoughts. and suggestions.

 

Jean, the other side's thin line , has some parts worn down, form polishing/age.. about the mid part is really shallow, compared to the rest of the line..

 

 

I guess my approached, was more like that old 'Kids" game , where I'm trying to put the square block into the round hole... 

 

Guys,

The reason I worked this research "Backwards", is that, I bought it as a Noritsune/Kamakura, and, only had that to work from.

 

I am not able, (Yet    )  to "decipher" all the physical traits, that would have lead me to start from a "Logical" approach, when starting to "Reviewing" this Blade.

and, the other (Easy way..  ) is,  to come here and "ask"?

 

"Nothing ventured, nothing gained"   - but, made ass in the process.

 

Plus, this is part of the "fun"    ,  and learning process..  (?    )

Thanks,

Alton

 

Added : 

I looked at the Mekugi Ana in the Nakago..

The lower "Hole", looks like the "Punched" holes,. I can see a small counter bore/counter sink, at the top portion of the Ana.

not as pronounced as the one in the example photo.

 

I just got another "Koto" Blade.

It has NTHK papers..   I feel it's going to help my confidence..  

[Jean]

Alton,

 

You should show it to Bob Benson who is a very respected Japanese sword polisher in Hawai. He could give you some information

 

http://www.bushidojapaneseswords.com/index.html

[Darcy]

Aoe is about 50/50 for katana mei and tachi mei. 

 

Some smiths did both.

 

Names were used generation after generation and it's difficult then given any signature or side of the blade signed to know absolutely what's going on. 

 

You need to look at the work to confirm what it is before looking at the signature with old blades. Well, you need to look at the signature to be sure that it comes from the correct period. But it can be the only example. There are almost 300 smiths that have achieved Juyo without being listed in Hawley, let alone Fujishiro and some of these are the only one of its kind.