2 Swords And Some Item

[troylbww]

I'm having some issues identifying the swords in our collection. I wanted some help. I believe both are souvenir by design. This other thing, I have no idea it is or what it's for. I'm guessing it's part of the armor that we have. the armor dates back to the Edo period and is most likely ceremonial. We received the armor and the swords together but that doesn't mean the were owned by the same person..

[Fuuten]

The first looks like half of a warfan.
 

The first blade and koshirae are not real i think, such kind of fittings are generally badly made, and all in all it just looks bad. Second one could be real but in terrible shape.

 

Maybe try and see if you can remove the handle on the second sword and make some photo's of the entire blade, and then some closeups. That should seal the deal.

[Greg F]

I agree on the swords. Im sure you know but just in case you need to give the second blade in particular a light oiling but not under the handle when you get it off.some better pics will make it a lot easier for people to give you the help you need. Good luck.

 

Greg

[Brian]

First one is likely a period "tourist" or export piece with a bad blade.

Second is 99% a real and antique sword, and with double habaki might be ok. As mentioned, need to remove the tsuka (handle) and see if signed.

[Kai-Gunto]

The first thing is a arrow quiver , Ebira

[Fuuten]

The first thing is a arrow quiver , Ebira

Thank you for the correction

[Peter Bleed]

I'm having some issues identifying the swords in our collection. I wanted some help.

Troylbww,

It sounds like you are a museum professional - and if that is the case, I commend your creative approach to identifying and assessing the stuff in your collection. It is often amazing to me what ignorance is built into museum catalogs. You have now got good assessment of these three objects. Please let me go a step farther. Deaccession this stuff. These things are not and never will have "museum significance." Your institution will never be able to use them for the normal missions of "teaching research or service". Instead you will simply have to pay for storage - - for eternity! Individual collectors, on the other hand, might be able to make these objects of some value.

Peter

[troylbww]

Thank you for the replies. I am working with a museum to locate the narrative for the items.

 

I was doing some research concurrently while I wasn't able to access this.

 

The first item is a Yumi Dai (bow stand). (Y)ebira seems to be the name of the same thing in some tribe(s) in Africa or something. Some sources claim that is also the name of it, but I have largely corroborated that it's called a Yumi Dai. It's smaller and missing the top parts that would hold the Yumi and the arrows in.

 

The second is absolutely a souvenir sword of wakizashi properties. Blade craftsmanship is poor and the scabbard is made of bone and is ornate, though in poor condition. There isn't a curve in the blade, so it might be a different type of sword.

 

The second is a wakizashi. It doesn't have the marks on the blade itself to signify a type of man-made craftsmanship but the tsuba is ornate. I'm not sure of samegawa tsukas make it more of a ceremonial piece of if this was a popular thing for crafters in the Edo period and even before.

 

It's amazing what a little digging and a keen eye can do. I'm not able to take them apart as they are the museum's pieces. But I will inform them as I'm likely the only person in a 40 mile radius that knows what the items are, what to look for, and how to look.

 

thanks for the help as your feedback supports my findings.

[SteveM]

箙 = Ebira, basket-like quiver. Ebira

矢籠 = Shiko (lit: arrow basket). Alternatively rendered as 矢壺 or 尻籠 shiko Typically come with family crest on the (leather, etc...) pouch/basket. The one in your collection has the family crest consisting of a stylized version of the kanji 古 (old) in a circle. See the site here. Look for number 2190.

弓台 = Yumi dai (lit: bow-stand). The yumi dai can be affixed to the shiko. Nowadays most people would think of a yumi dai as a lacquer stand for a bow, like the one here

 

More detail here. I'm fairly sure that what you have is more or less the shiko without the top bit. 

 

Regarding the tsuka to the wakizashi, nearly all tsukas use same (shark/ray skin). The tsuka for the sword in the far right picture has had its silk wrapping removed (or perhaps it deteriorated, as happens). In addition, it is missing the kashira (and I would assume it probably had menuki at some point as well).

 

The quiver and the wakizashi are very typical items of an edo-period samurai. As Brian says the blade will need to be removed from the tsuka in order to see if there are any engravings on the tang itself. The bare tsuka to this piece is more or less a write-off, with no outstanding aesthetic value and negligible value as a historical artifact. I'm not recommending it should be destroyed, but it will need to be removed in order to determine if there is any signature on the tang. 

 

I would also be sparing of the use of the word "ceremonial", as these weapons were made to be used if/when the need arose. Koshirae could also be fashion statements, but that doesn't mean the swords they held weren't real swords. 

[ROKUJURO]

The first thing is an arrow quiver , Ebira

This form of a quiver is called SHIKO