Big Issues With Japanese Customs

[lonely panet]

Hi guys,

 

I sold a meji gendai in Kyu gunto mounts to a gentleman in Japan, big problem is the customs people have refused it and are trying to send it back saying its not Japanese??? when it is quite obvious it is. can I resolve this issue with them? other wise this will require me to refund money plus all the postage and import taxes twice over costing me some wear near $400-500 AUD ontop of the sword costs.

 

can any one help me please. I was thinking of contacting tsurata from Aoi-Art if no one can help,

 

I know what your going to say, just refund him, but I sold the sword because I needed the money.

[b.hennick]

It is unsigned and no arsenal stamps. I do not see the problem. They must think that it is Chinese.  I do not think so. Ask for a supervisor or the shinsa team that OKs import of Japanese swords. You might try Robert Hughes or Paul Martin. 

[Lee Bray]

It may be something to do with the recent new laws(?) regarding non antique swords.

This thread, especially Darcy's posts, might shed some light.

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/1860-importingexporting-and-customs-queries-and-advice/?hl=%2Bgendai+%2Bpaperwork&do=findComment&comment=14557

Just sounds like you need to do some preliminary paperwork.

I'd second Barry's recommendation to contact Paul Martin.

[lonely panet]

chinese my ass

 

my declaration  stated it was a "Antique Kyu gunto",

no age stated, I assumed they know what one is ( prob a dumb assumption)

 

thanks for the advice. ill get in contact with them

 

regards Hamish

[seattle1]

Hello:

 It is my understanding, perhaps wrong, that swords entering Japan are screened by a "postal shinsa" consisting of one or more non-government sword experts brought into the airport Customs facility once or twice a month for that purpose, and it is that person or group that says the sword a traditionally made Japanese sword or not. I do not believe it is some ordinary employee of Japanese Customs. Can someone with first hand knowledge of the process clarify?

 Arnold F.

[Jean]

Arnold,

 

You are 100% right. There is Airport Customs shinsa (once a month I think) with non-government swords experts who examine the swords and state if the sword is Japanese or not, traditionally made or not, and state the period of forge. Very difficult to contest this decision. It helps also to fix the Customs duties. If you remember my friend Marc Broquin sent a sword to Japan for NBTHK shinsa, believed to be Mino mid-Muromachi. The Airport shinsa declares it as Gendaito....no appeal possible.

 

Robert Hughes/Paul Martin know the process.

[seattle1]

Hello:

 Thanks for your post Jean. I know of several of the names of the men sent to have been judges, again just second hand information to me, but they are among the most prominent in the sword world. I also understand that if they determine something is not a Nihonto as we understand the term the object is subject to destruction in Japan at the discretion of Japanese Customs though that is not often followed through on.

 Arnold F.

[lonely panet]

Thank you very much for all your input.

 

sounds like Im at the end of the road with this one, it was insured so worst case I will have to claim it.

 

thank you for all your help and knowledge.

 

regards Hamish

[kunitaro]

When the sword arrives in Japan post, JP custom will inform to the receiver and Register office (Kyoikuiinkai) to invite swords experts for examine.

There is a few JP custom in the International post office, 

Narita air port (Chiba prefecture), Nagoya (Aichi prefecture) Osaka (Osaka prefecture) and Fukuoka, 

They have "sword register day", one day every 2 month at Fukuoka, and maybe Osaka, and one day every three month at Chiba and Nagoya (not sure). and I think that Tokyo as well (it could be every month, not sure).

If receiver is living at those prefectures, he/she can go to JP custom in the post office, stay at examination, if it is good, They can issue Torokusho (register card), pay the fee and take the sword out from custom, bring it back home.

If the receiver is not living in those prefectures, the custom issues "Toroku-kano shomeisho/proof of possible register) pre-register paper after examine, then it will be deliver to the receiver,

The receiver will have to bring it to local register office at their register day to issue proper Torokusho.

 

As Jean san and Arnold san said, the custom personal will never judge the sword by themselves. they have to call the registered expert to examine.

Coming examination day will be 21st of May at Fukuoka, and 26th of May at Osaka, (I don't know Chiba/Nariita and Nagoya).

(we have swords at Custom in Fukuoka and Osaka, waiting for register at this moment.)

 

Dear Hamish san,

The photo you posted here looks traditionally made Japanese sword. (Nice Masame nada) it should be pass the examine….

If you PM me some info of the parcel. (Tracking number and receiver's name and address), I will check JP custom for you.

 

Best regards

[Jean]

That is very kind of you Kunitaro san

[Kronos]

The sword registration takes place the second Tuesday of each month in Tokyo iirc. Swords are examined by senior members of the local NBTHK branch who generally know their stuff, but mistakes can happen. Hopefully Kunitaro can find out why it failed as there only needs to be 1 aspect that isn't traditional for it to fail.

[lonely panet]

pm sent

[lonely panet]

I can't  thank everyone enough for your help, people's generosity can make a world of difference in these difficult situations.

 

thankyou, thankyou, thankyou 

[SwordGuyJoe]

Even though we as a "community" can squabble, I do have to agree that when a fellow enthusiast needs help, I've been so impressed with how quickly someone steps up.

[kunitaro]

Dear Hamfish san,

I called Tokyo-to Kyoikuiinkai sword register department.
When the sword failed examination for register, They issues a letter of failure (or card) to the receiver.

The sword had arrived at 10th of April and examined at 14th of April and failed. and they cold not tell me detailed reason why it failed by phone because the experts was not there in the office.
Once they made decision, they will not reconsider (I asked because the sword looks like traditionally made).
so, you can (or have no choice to) ask the receiver to request sending the sword back to the sender, and ask to send you a copy of the letter(or card). 
If the buyer still want the sword, if it is registered, 
you can try to send the sword again at some one (maybe an agent) who know about sword, so, he can explain or give opinion at examination in the custom.

 

Sorry, not much help....

Best regards kunitaro

[lonely panet]

PM sent

 

I must express a huge, massive, giant thanks to Kunitaro San

 

It must go with out saying, the caring approach of members of the bouard and there wiliness to help me when I needed it, is beyond words

 

But sadly the buyer has blunty insisted that the sword be returned at once, with the fail papers so we can only wait and see.

 

I know how to thank Kunitaro San, with lots of top shelf redwine and whisky's but how do say thank you to the board??

 

any suggestions

 

best regards Hamish

[Mark]

You could make a donation to the board in his name, it is the NMB that makes it possible and I am sure Kunitaro-san would appreciate the thought

[lonely panet]

thank you all .

 

Donation made

 

best regards Hamish

[lonely panet]

and it only gets worse, the was returned to day with no paperwork or fail card evan though I was told it would be sent back with the sword.  BBBBBUUUUUTTTTT it did return with a considerable bend, 1inche infront of the habaki moto area, WTF.

 

has any one ever heard of this??

 

and before any one asks, yes this sword already had a small deflection in the area just below the yakote line (2inches below) it was shown on the board when I posted it for sale hear.

 

but how the fu## did this happen?, the box is in the same condition when I sent if, all the fittings are good, so how the fu## did it occur

 

I can see this turning it a he said/she said s**t fit with Ebay

 

 

[lonely panet]

heres the original pics taken,

[pcfarrar]

Sorry to see that its been damaged, it has to have happened outside of the saya so Japanese customs must be to blame.

[lonely panet]

I spoke to a trained togishi, and he was puzzled to how it could happen, as its the strongest portion of the blade.

 

good news as it will only be a small amount of money to repair. but im done with ebay and selling anything or sending it to Japan now.

 

this is the 3rd complication with importing/export swords from Japan, the first 2 were EMS not sending swords out of Japan to Australia, but they seemed ok with returning this one to me in a record 3 days.

 

to much funny stuff for me...

 

best of wishes to those who are still doing it