Was it a Kodachi?

[Jean]

http://www.aoijapan.com/katana-mumeiuns ... d-as-unsyo

[Alex A]

Blade length for ko-dachi is 60cm or less (so i just read), this is 63.9cm.

[Guido]

Its intended use was Kodachi*. Its modern classification is Katana. If we try try to classify swords within a tolerance of one milimeter, the historical context gets lost easily.

 

(* or Hosodachi or one of the other names they called swords not intended for battle at that time)

[Alex A]

I see, something i need reminding about now and again, reading through some of the well known introductory books can get one into the habit of overly categorizing, like some kind of rule cop, "sorry sonny, thats no ko-dachi you have there, your 4cm over the legal limit" haha. There are always allowances and exceptions to these rules, it will sink in one day

[nagamaki - Franco]

The blade is oosuriage

[leo]

Jean, this is an interesting nakago, good looking but seems well worked over at earlier times. There is a kind of welding seam near the plugged mekugi ana. If we assume that this is the original hole, then the nagasa must have been at least 80cm. Imho it had been even longer.

 

Now, Guido, my question: Is the term kodachi used for blades originally forged as a short blade only or does it also apply for long tachi blades shortened early to be used as a kodachi?

 

Best, Martin

[Stefan]

I don´t understand for which reason tsuruta san call this sword an Ko-Dachi.

Now it does have an nagasa of 63 cm and it is o-suriage mumei.

That means nothing is preserved of the original nakago. Taking this in account we can aprox. an original nagasa of 75 + cm.

A normal length for Tachi of this time.

Ref. the Term "ko-dachi" : Kotoken Kajihara explains in his book that every tachi shorter than standard length is called ko-dachi.

But is an o-Suriage mumei Tachi still an Tachi or is it know an Katana ?

Many of the old tachi have been shortend for the reason to be used as Katana, therefore this blade in discussion is an Katana and no ko-dachi.

 

Only my point of view.

 

Greetings from Germany

Stefan

[Alex A]

Im guessinng folk of the time period would have refered to it as ko-dachi. Obviously this would depend on it being shortened at that time.

[Guido]

A Kodachi is kind of a scaled down Tachi, so technically speaking this sword is not really one because of the length. However, I can understand why Tsuruta-san calls it Kodachi, it certainly hasn't the usual measurements, and Kodachi means small Tachi anyhow. Well, yes, it isn't really small, but narrow

 

But does it really matter? All this getting ones pants around the ankle because it doesn't fit the textbook description is kind of silly ...

[Jean]

That was the reason of this topic, nothing is fixed in Niihonto world in this field.

 

It reminds me of this story:

 

An Army instructor asks rookies:

 

"after a rifle has been fired, How long does it take for the barrel to cool down?"

 

answers given : one to ten minutes.

 

The instructor sayss: "all answers are wrong. the answer is: some time"

 

In the same idea: What is an O suriage blade?

[paulb]

My original understanding was that the deifinition of an O-suriage blade is one where the whole of the original nakago was removed.

Suriage refers to partial removal.

Probably wrong or at least outdated but that was what I was taught.

[Jean]

Not necessarily Paul. Some considers that a blade is Osuriage when the shortening process has cut off the mei. This of course presumes there was a mei. O suriage means greatly shortened, but it can go from 3/4 cm

to XX cm (meaning more than 50cm).

Is a blade considered as O suriage when the original mekugi ana has disappeared?

When the original mekugi ana still exist, is it suriage or O suriage depending on an existng mei or not?

 

 

And in this picture below, the bottom ana being the original one what it is, suriage or O suriage

[Marius]

Coming back on topic (the Unsho daito) - I wonder why it is so narrow. If we only knew its original dimensions (it is thin now, but this is most likely the result of polishing) we could probably speculate if it was not a blade made for the court... Then again, I can imagine that courtiers have ordered mostly Kyo-mono.

 

Well, this is poised to remain in the realm of pure speculation

[Guido]

(it is thin now, but this is most likely the result of polishing)

Yes, it probly has seen a few polishes, but it still looks proportional, i.e. no major change of its geometry. I think it's save to say that it was very narrow from the beginning. Indeed an unusual blade.

[Stefan]

I ´ve seen several unrui blades, they have been all slender and nevertheless strong suguta.

I do really think that this miracle is one trademark of this school.

[cabowen]

Not necessarily Paul. Some considers that a blade is Osuriage when the shortening process has cut off the mei. This of course presumes there was a mei. O suriage means greatly shortened, but it can go from 3/4 cm to XX cm (meaning more than 50cm).

Is a blade considered as O suriage when the original mekugi ana has disappeared?

When the original mekugi ana still exist, is it suriage or O suriage depending on an existng mei or not?

 

 

And in this picture below, the bottom ana being the original one what it is, suriage or O suriage

 

While not exact, suriage is simply shortened, o-suriage greatly shortened. When the majority of the original nakago has been lost, it is usually called o-suriage, 3/4 of a centimeter would not be considered the majority of the nakago unless the nakago was originally around 2 centimeters long....

 

Like many things, it is a judgment call made using common sense...

[Jean]

Chris,

 

In French, 3/4 cm means 3 to 4 cms :D

[Jean]

Stefan,

 

to compare, here is an other one

 

http://www.aoijapan.com/katana-mumeiunj ... juyo-paper

[cabowen]

Chris,

 

In French, 3/4 cm means 3 to 4 cms :D

 

 

Ah, merci.....

[Stefan]

Stefan,

 

to compare, here is an other one

 

http://www.aoijapan.com/katana-mumeiunj ... juyo-paper

Hallo Jean !

Indeed, an nice blade of quality without any doubt.

But also here : It gives the viewer an slender Impression.

That is the miracle.

By the way i have seen several blades by this school does not mean pics, it does mean I ve handled them.

And all saints, this school is gorgerous.

Stong blades with an slender, elegant form, but without harming the strenght of the sugata.

[ancientnoob]

Interesting thread. Interesting opinions offered here.

Nathan.

[Ken-Hawaii]

In French, 3/4 cm means 3 to 4 cms

 

So, Jean, how do you say three-quarters of a cm over there...?

 

Ken

[DirkO]

We don't, we use mm instead :-) That's the beauty of the metric system! so in this case, 0,75cm or 7,5mm