Dad's Japanese military swords/fittings found. Help Info

[jensen6865]

Hi,

I am new here and have been reading this site for some time. My father was in first occupation group assigned to demilitarize Japanese. They went all over and collected. Some things had to be "logged" in, but most small arms and swords were put in amphibious trucks and such and dumped in Tokyo Bay. He was a sergeant and got to "keep" all kinds of things: Cavalry clothing/saddle/tack/boots etc and a number of swords and fittings were shipped back here. We found another trunk with some in and there are mine, my siblings have the earlier ones we found.

 

Both swords appear to be early types, the big one is o-suraige? long and heavy with bo-hi? How would I go about getting some of your expertise about them?

I don't know how all of this site works, I'm new to any discussion group. Thank you.

[Mark]

welcome to the group. If you could post some pictures it would be a good starting point. Where are you located, maybe there is a club or study group near you, there are also sword show, if you are in the US, that you might attend. Also the NMB rules require you sign your posts with a name.

[jensen6865]

Hi,

I'm sorry about that! I'll get some pictures up as soon as I can.

 

Thanks, Dan

[jensen6865]

Alright here goes a picture try! Thanks, Dan

[jensen6865]

It says my file size is to big, I have to find out how to get them posted, sorry.

Dan

[Brian]

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7

 

Brian

[jensen6865]

Another picture attempt! Blade is 34 5/8" long, 26 5/8" edge, 8' tang?, 1 1/4" at base of edge, 1" at to of edge, 8mm thick at base of edge. Heavy and thick compared to the ones my sibling have. You can see some "grain" in the edge and fairly straight temper line?

 

Will try and add more as well.

 

Dan

[Brian]

I downloaded, edited, cropped and resized..then re-uploaded to get rid of the acres of background and reduce filesize.

 

Brian

[jensen6865]

Thank you! I am starting to get the hang of some of this. Luckily my daughter knows about computers. Will try to have the rest of pictures better set-up.

 

Dan

[mdiddy]

Dan,

 

Thanks for sharing. It looks like a nice old sword. Based on the shape, bo-hi, and nakago I would suggest the sword is koto, or made prior to 1596. We would need more detail - good pictures of the grain and straight temperline to start - to tell you anything more definite. Did the sword come with any mountings/fittings or is it a bare blade? If it has mountings, can you take pictures and share those as well?

 

Matt

[jensen6865]

I have some more pictures ready. Hopefully... Is there any particular area that would help to have picture of?

Thanks, Dan

[Stephen]

Dan

 

Its always good to show the hamachi, so we can see how much is left. So far it looks like its had its share of polishes.

[Marius]

Dan,

 

can you take a few close ups showing the hada and the hamon? Hada looks like itame nagare, but I cannot see the habuchi...Is the hamon nioi or nie based?

 

Based on shape - a suriage Nambokucho/early Muromachi sword. As for school - impossible to say at this stage. Get us more food for thought, please :D

[jensen6865]

I have some more pictures. I still am no good at getting the blade at right angle to see things in picture. Hope these help some. You can see the Hada (grain right?) in some, Hamon (tempering line right?) is so hard to get but a few you can see it a little. It is fairly straight, but has small "ripples" along it. The hada is really visible. You can see the temper color way down into the handle by hole.

Sorry for the bad editing, I'm learning how to do this thing.

Dan

[jensen6865]

Hi,

The hamon, after looking at lots of sample pictures, looks like Chu-Suguha or Hoso-Suguha. The waves are very small, yet not real consistant. Picture 0413 shows some of it. The Hamon line is whiter and brighter than toward the edge, but that whole part is snowy white.

 

Can you all tell me more of how to look for clues about it and what pictures I can add.

Thanks, Dan

[jensen6865]

The overall look/shape/ color of hamon look alot like this one i found a picture of- http://world.choshuya.co.jp/sale/gj/1009/11_senjuin.htm

The Sori is about .625" or about 16mm. I am trying to get view of the hamon out at the end. Any advice or information would be really appreciated.

 

Thanks, Dan

[mdiddy]

Dan,

 

Getting good pictures can be tricky. It may help to shine a spotlight on the blade to light up the hada and hamon. If you search on the forum you can get additional tips for getting good pictures.

 

Lots of schools tempered in suguha so it is still very hard to narrow down from the information you have provided. Based on the shape, I would suggest the sword is Nambokucho era but could be later.

 

If you are close to San Francisco, you may want to investigate the Japanese sword show held there in early August: http://www.ncjsc.org/SF_token_kai.htm. You would likely be able to collect many knowledgeable opinions by showing the sword around at the show.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Matt

[jensen6865]

Thank you very much. I will keep working on learning how to take pictures and all the rest. I will try to get there in August. It is just that it is exciting to be learning about these amazing swords! I will keep trying. Dan

[jensen6865]

Hi,

I am learning more all the time about how quickly you guys get an idea of age/era. At first I couldn't tell any apart I am really starting to see the importance of the overall shape and feel.

From what you all see, do you think I should take it to the August show and then decide whether to have it polished/papered etc? Would really appreciate your thoughts.

Will try and get some better pictures up and take some of the Wakizashi as well. Starting to realize my Dad, as always, picked carefully what he sent home.

Will work on fittings as well.

Thank all of you for your continuing support of knowledge. I am flattered by all the offers, but I'm going to go slow.

 

Thanks,Dan

[hxv]

Dan,

 

Looking at your picture, I would say suguha. I wouldn't characterize it as chu suguha or hoso suguha. If you can show a close up picture of the boshi, that would help a lot. The kissaki is the physical tip, and the boshi is the hamon on the kissaki.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[jensen6865]

Hi,

Thanks, I will get one up as soon as I can.

 

Thanks, Dan

[mdiddy]

do you think I should take it to the August show and then decide whether to have it polished/papered etc?

 

Yes, and be aware you might receive a few tempting offers if people like what they see. Another option would be to buy some books and learn a little more about these items on your own before making a decision to have it polished. I highly recommend not rushing into having it polished. It is a decision that should be well considered.

[drbvac]

May be a treasure indeed so it would be great to discover if it is and where and by whom it was made - the hamachi is worn down pretty well from polishes as well as the shortening of the blade but it is still an old blade worthy of further study and research.

[jensen6865]

Hi,

Finally had a minute to try and get more information up for you all to see. I am finding out more all of the time. Here are some more pictures of the one sword and some other items I'll try to get up as I have time. Is it really supposed to be this exciting to learn about these swords and fittings? Or am I just weird? I think I am to the point I don't care if I am weird about it!

 

Thanks, Dan

[jensen6865]

Hi,

 

Sorry! Didn't attach the rest correctly. Please forgive my stumbling!

 

Dan

Try again here.

[hxv]

Is it really supposed to be this exciting to learn about these swords and fittings? Or am I just weird?

 

Yes and yes. You are definitely weird, but you are in good company.

 

Hoanh

[jensen6865]

Thank you. I hated history and the like in school, now I'm loving it. The techniques and methods of making these is truly an art form. I am working on a vocabulary so I can express myself about them.

Thanks, Dan

[jensen6865]

Maybe, Dan