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Childs Matchlock Pistol just acquired, help requested


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Hello there,

 

I just bought this matchlock. It appears to to be a rare childs matchlock pistol. The barrel is 28 caliber (is that 7/8 mon?) and 10 ". The overall gun length is 16". Any ideas about it? The power horn had an emblem on it, and the priming horn has the Maeda clan (I think that's it) emblem mon on it. They were all together from the seller, and belonged to it. When I get it, i'll remove the barrel to see if its marked. It was supposed to be from 1800, does that seem corret?

 

Sincerely,

Bill Jensen

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Dear Bill,

Well, ... Yes approximately 7/8 monme . Your matchlock looks to be slapped together by an amateurish gunsmith at best. The flash pan ( hizara ) appears to have a hole drilled right thru the center. This was sometimes done so that the pan could be relined, ... which does not appear to have had the job finished in this case. The pan cover ( hibuta ) is also completely missing as is the brass barrel protector ( amaooi ). Also, although difficult to identify the main spring ... it almost looks like steel rather than brass ... although this may be simply the brass having turned blackish. It is never the less NAILED through the lock plate rather than pinned ( not done on Japanese matchlocks that are well made ). The trigger guard is at best amateurishly installed and allows little if any room for the finger of even a child. The stock near the butt is in a shape I cannot assign to any school, ... nor have I seen anything quite like it before. The method of fastening the barrel to the stock using brass bands is known, ... but 4 ... actually counting the main stock ring ( dougane ) would be 5 on a barrel that is approximately 10 inches long ?? This is rather unusual if not unheard of before this example.

 

I do not know what nor whom assembled this pistol or child's gun, ... but it was not a gunsmith but rather a blacksmith. I have been rather harsh in my criticism of your matchlock, ... but I think you want an honest opinion. Take note, ... this is my opinion and others may have a more favourable take on your gun.

... Ron Watson

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That hammer spring is iron or steel. The ramrod is iron or steel, and is vey likely a replacement.

 

The seller says the pan is intact, and the powder will not fall out of it, even though it looks drilled out. Touch hole is not reamed out either.

 

The bands would likely slip off easily to allow me to pull the barrel to see if the barrel has a signature. If a blacksmith made it, would there be any signature? It seens strange that the barrel is completely round?

 

Sincerely,

 

Bill Jensen

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Dear Bill,

On the tanegashima ( matchlock ), ... the main spring is pretty much always brass. By all means have a look under the barrel to see if there is a signature. Some tanegashima do have round barrels. It would also be of interest for you to post a photo of the barrel removed to see the shape of the breach plug ( bizen ). A photo of the pan area would also be helpful. It is a difficult little gun to figure out without having it in hand. It is most likely the ramrod is a replacement although some matchlocks did have iron ramrods.

... Ron Watson

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I thought the iron ramrod was a replacement since it is not plum brown tarnish, I have heard of matlock pistols with iron ramrods.

 

As for the primitive malformed triggerguard, I believe that the spacing Would allow room for a childs finger, which made me think the more its a childs matchlock. Any other opinions as to wheter its for a child or not? And also on the dating to 1800 AD.

 

Most of the Matchlock pistols I have seen have an internal mainspring which make little sense here, could it be a fake matchlock?

Or not all original?

 

Sincerely,

Bill Jensen

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Dear Bill,

The only sure way to date a matchlock is if it is signed, ... and the gunsmiths signature and working dated can be found. There is a somewhat incomplete listing in Japanese text only ... unfortunately. Some matchlocks ( pistols or muskets ) have an internal spring and others have an external spring depending upon the gunsmith and/or school. I cannot say whether your gun is all original, ... I have some doubts however. It has been fudged with somewhat I think, and may have been made up from a much different looking gun. I simply cannot answer you.

... Ron Watson

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Pillow yari are small yari (spears) for use as last resort weapon. (kept under the pillow in the bedroom or in a Norimono) A norimono is a sedan chair which was used in Japan to carry people around. The image I posted is a norimono for a high ranking person.

 

So, looking at the small size of the gun and comparing that with short and small spears for use inside such a sedan chair as well as the shorter knives like Tanto which were worn close to the body for extra protection when swords were not around or easy to wield, it could well be for use inside a Norimono, which when attacked can at least fire one shot to an attacker after which the attacked could try and fight with other weapons.

 

Mind you this is just a hypothesis.

 

KM

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Dear Bill, Henk-Jan,

First I'll address Henk-Jan, ... I did not know of your expertise in the field of the study of the Tanegashima. Firstly such a rough looking specimen as this would NOT be used in a Norimono ( sedan chair ). Those who rode in sedan chairs would be carrying a quality firearm, ... not something as crude and primitive as this example. Secondly, ... no the stock on Bill's example is not typical, ... it is virtually straight with little or no curvature. In fact at one point the curvature is curving upward !

 

Bill, ... if you look at the quality examples of matchlock pistols that you posted, .... do you actually see anything more than a suggestion of the stocks of the posted guns ? If you do, ... then I suggest you take a closer look. As much as Henk-Jan or yourself for that matter want this gun to be something special, .... it is not ! One cannot make a Silk Purse from a Sow's Ear.

 

... Ron Watson

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Is part of its crude ugliness the 5 barrel bands, or are there other features that make it ugly and a sows-ear?

 

If the barrel is signed, does that mean that the named matchlock maker made the wood and brass parts as well, or did they only make the barrels alone, and had someone else do the wood and brass parts?

 

Sinceerely,

Bill Jensen

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Is part of its crude ugliness the 5 barrel bands, or are there other features that make it ugly and a sows-ear?

 

If the barrel is signed, does that mean that the named matchlock maker made the wood and brass parts as well, or did they only make the barrels alone, and had someone else do the wood and brass parts?

 

Sinceerely,

Bill Jensen

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Dear Ron, what part of the word hypothetical in my post did you not read ? ;)

 

I was just writing down my thoughts about the gun Bill posted, of course your knowledge about guns and tanegashima is infinetely larger than mine. I have to agree with what you say about the more luxurious/ better quality gun carried (if that happened at all) in a Norimono. [the smouldering fuse would be annoying to the occupant me thinks]

 

I just know the basics of Arquebuses and the history of the tanegashima in use by the Samurai, but of course not the finesse. I could not say whether a tanegashima would have been made by Buddhist priests or in some other Daimyo or Shogunal arsenal.

 

It is not that I would want to see something special in the gun Bill owns, I was merely brainstorming due to its size.

 

KM

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Dear Bill,

The ugliness ( for lack of a better word ) of your matchlock does not stem from the barrel bands but rather the overall lines of the gun. They are just all wrong. The poor quality fitting of the trigger guard to the stock, ... the nailing of the lock to the stock. The stock butt shape is not well executed and actually looks clumsy to grip in a firing position. These are all contributing factors in my eyes. I am sorry but I cannot find any redeeming features on this matchlock.

... Ron Watson

 

Dear Henk-Jan,

Yes, ... I read the word hypothetical. Sometimes brainstorming and being hypothetical can lead a novice far from reality. This is the problem I have when trying to point out why a certain gun is just not correct or of sufficient quality to bother owning. There is nothing here in my opinion to learn but to ask advice before making a purchase ... not afterward.

 

... Ron Watson

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Does anybody know of another example of a Japanese matchlock with a iron / steel mainspring? Does this mean its a later repair, or could it be an anomolous old original part? Can blacksmiths make iron springs? I have heard of matchlocks with iron locks though.

 

Sincerely,

Bill Jensen

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Bill,

 

I think you have an amalgamation of maybe some original parts and later parts made to complete what was left. The barrel may be real, but like Ron suggested, we need to see photos of the barrel.

 

I think you need to consider a return if it is possible. If not, learn from what there is to learn and then research your next purchase. I just purchased a tanegashima from an online auction. I used what I have learned from Ron and Piers, along with Ian to make an educated guess, and while it too is not a "eye catcher" it is original, and I am sure I paid way less than yours.

 

If you own it, there are worse things to own, and I want you to know that Ron is being fatherly and trying to help you understand. He, Ian and Piers are all western experts on this subject and if they (he) says it is not correct, you can bet on it.

 

Ron has forgotten more about these things than I can ever hope to know.

 

Good luck, and welcome. I hope this does not put you off of your journey for true Hinawaju (Fire Rope Guns)

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I saw this on the web: "While the Japanese were technically able to produce tempered steel (e.g. sword blades), they preferred to use work-hardened brass springs in their matchlocks" so its not out of the realm of possibility that an old matchlock Could have had a iron / steel spring.

From the amount of blackening on it, it appears to be an original part of the gun, and not a later addition. I just have never seen an iron spring before.

 

I may consider returning it, especially if the pan is drilled out, and they were wrong in describing it to me. Otherwise I guess it will be a learning experience.

 

Sincerely,

Bill Jensen

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Dear Bill,

Regarding the steel main spring. I personally have never seen an iron outside main spring. I will not say that they do not exist ( being too definitive with the tanegashima will get your fingers burnt ). I think in your case it is a replacement that someone has fashioned to operate the mechanism.

... Ron Watson

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The bands would likely slip off easily to allow me to pull the barrel to see if the barrel has a signature.

Bill, good idea, see if you can do that and take some pictures, that should help solve this mystery.
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