A truly strange hamon!

[Ken-Hawaii]

I was doing my daily eBay browsing, & came upon a tanto with the strangest hamon I've ever seen. Please check out the photos & tell me just what the swordsmith created.

 

It's possible that the photographer didn't know what he was doing (I'm not all that impressed with his images), but otherwise the hamon in the middle of the blade has gone far above the shinogi almost to the mune. Am I seeing wrong?

[pcfarrar]

The clay must have slipped. Not good really...

[Brian]

Looks like a WW2 "kamikaze" dagger..probably oil quenched, and as mentioned, the clay must have come off during yakiire.

Because of the war situation, and the fact that these were more ceremonial than utilitarian, I am sure that they just let it go through like that.

 

Brian

[kusunokimasahige]

so would a hamon like that be considered as a fatal flaw in appreciation?

 

KM

[AndreasU]

You mean if you send it to a shinsa?

 

With the experience I made with "approved" and "judged" blades (papers) I am sure they will find something really really valuable in it.........

[kusunokimasahige]

yes thats exactly what i meant...

 

:lol:

 

KM

[Brian]

If I am correct that this is a WW2 "kamikaze" dagger, then in all probability it will not be traditionally made, but oil quenched similar to Showato.

What say the others?

 

Brian

[pcfarrar]

so would a hamon like that be considered as a fatal flaw in appreciation?

 

KM

 

Yes its a flaw. You see it on older blades sometimes.

[Brian]

A flaw, yes. But surely not a fatal flaw?

I don't see this in the same league as hagire.

 

Brian

[Ken-Hawaii]

Okay, now that I have this tanto in hand, I've had a chance to take a much closer look...& I still don't quite know what the swordsmith did when he created it.

 

I've attached two photos, along with a tracing I did of the hamon. There's enough detail that I don't think that the clay slipped; seems more planned than anything else. Does everyone still think this is a WWII kamikaze dagger?

[Henry Wilson]

Could it be a Fuji San hamon ?

[Pete Klein]

Interesting tracing Ken -- I don't know about Fuji-san but has anyone ever seen 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind'?

 

(You know -- I just can't get this sound out of my head)

[Stephen]

yea Pete it does look like devils tower...with the ship beside it.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Pete, I did the tracing by inserting the scaled photographs of the tanto into AutoCAD, & then first carefully followed the outline with a polyline, & then did the same with the hamon. A little tedious, but very accurate.

 

I just returned from our local monthly Japanese Sword Society meeting, & one of the three shinsa members was there. He was enthralled with the blade, & had his magnifying glass on it a good part of the meeting. His opinion is that it's a Shin-shinto blade, possibly made by a swordsmith from the Soshu school. He's fairly sure that the hamon is intentional, & is likely of Fuji-san. He even took some photos to research. I haven't seen him so excited since a member brought in a Juyo Token blade last year.

 

Next month, all three shinsa members are supposed to attend our meeting, & I hope to get a provenance consensus from them. Interestingly, the shirasaya, which I thought was modern capped with cheap plastic, may be older than the tanto, & the caps are definitely ivory.

[Henry Wilson]

Looks like I was on the money. (see the post above) :D

Congratulations to me.

I can see Fuji San from my house so we are on good terms with each other. :lol:

[Ken-Hawaii]

I'm looking forward to climbing Fuji-san some year, Henry. I envy you being in sight of it. We don't get to visit Japan as often now that our son & his Japanese wife live out here in Hawaii. Talk about mixed blessings....

 

I left out one part of our shinsa's translation: he thinks the hamon on the other side just may be an interpretation of one of the Black Ships. I think the swordsmith was having way too much fun! :D

[Stever]

I'd be very interested to hear what the other shinsa team members have to say. Still looks to me like a WW2 kamikaze dagger, though there are some differences. Here's another one on eBay:

 

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Japanese-WW2-Kamikaze-pilot-dagger-tanto-sword_W0QQitemZ220126600698QQihZ012QQcategoryZ4080QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

The sugata fits, and so does the hamon (except for the oddity) for this type of knife. I'm with the crowd that thinks the strange hamon the result of clay slippage, as you can still see the normal hamon pattern in that area in the higher res pics you posted. The only thing that looks shinto to me is the colour of the rust on the nakago, but the fact that it's got the same stubby nakago as the WW2 daggers would mean it was reshaped. Is there any visible evidence of this? It just seems unlikely to me that someone would find an old blade with the same hamon and sugata as the kamikaze daggers, and have it mounted as such for the war. Not trying to argue with a shinsa member, just stating my observations. I'd love to be wrong.

 

BTW, what in particular did the shinsa team member see in the blade that impressed him so, besides the hamon?

 

cheers,

/steve

[mike yeon]

Interestingly, the shirasaya, which I thought was modern capped with cheap plastic, may be older than the tanto, & the caps are definitely ivory.

 

Hi Ken,

 

A shirasaya would have been made to fit the tanto so can't say the shirasaya is older (unless someone slipped the blade into a makeshift shirasaya that just happened to fit.)

 

In any case, when you say "shinsa team" do you mean members of an organization like the NTHK? Or is it a kantei group within your sword study group? (Asking because some study groups have members that are indeed shinsa team members I'd imagine.) Just curious.

 

In my opinion, I agree with steve (WW2 dagger.) I'd like to be wrong. Can you see any hataraki in the hamon? The hada looks muji from the pictures. Nice activities would point to a traditionally made blade and away from the WW2 pilot dagger assesment.

 

Best of luck in either case.

 

mike

[Ken-Hawaii]

Steve, I can see some similarities to that WWII dagger, but also some significant differences.

 

The nakago on my blade is ubu, according to the shinsa & the other sword society members. The rust is much deeper than could be formed since WWII. The blade shape is also indicative of an older forging.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Just saw your posting, Mike. Three of our sword society members travel around as a shinsa team, I believe for NBTHK, but I'm not positive; could be NTHK. We're really lucky to have them in the club! Most of what they say has to be translated for me, as my Japanese is fairly limited.... When we're even luckier, they bring in a Juyo-level blade for kantei. Quite a learning experience.

 

Anyway, my shirasaya doesn't look that old, but he was pretty firm on what he told me. The blade is somewhat loose in the shirasaya, so I guess it's possible that the tanto was just mounted into it. There is a second hole in the saya that doesn't correspond to the nakago's single mekugiana, as the nakago is shorter.

 

There is a very slight itame grain to the hada, but I couldn't quite call it muji; almost need a magnifying glass to see it, though. No specific hataraki that I can see, although there's definitely nie activity. The shinsa members may all attend next month's meeting, but will definitely be there in September, so I can report back on what they tell me.