Old Tsuba, information needed

[danae24]

Hello, I am new here. I need some help on a Tsuba I have. Obviously not an expert, although I did some research on it. I have inherited it, and I don't know if I want to sell it or keep it. What I want is to have some information about it and possible valuation.

What I figured out is that it is early Edo period, Tembo school, Mokko gata, probably sukidashi mimi, inlayed metal very irregular surface with a creature with golden eyes inlayed. It is pretty hefty when you hold it, obviously very old.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong, let me know what you know about it and if possible price it for me. Thank you so much for any help.

[MauroP]

Hi, nice tsuba. I'm far from being an expert, but I think that a strong tsuchime-ji (槌目地) ground is not enough to assign your tsuba to Tenpō (天法) school. Naturalistic carvings, presence of soft metal inlays and absence of "hot stamps" (kokuin - 刻印) are all characteristics not typical of Tenpō.

Bye, Mauro

[Alan Morton]

Hello Danae?,

 

I can understand your Tenbo call on this tsuba but as Mauro says I don't

 

think so. Saotome also did this type of work.I think I would guess Mito

 

school on this one and your creature looks like a frog sitting under the moon to me.

 

I do like your "ugly" little Tsuba.

 

Alan.

[Marius]

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Looks like a late Edo tsuba. Clumsy workmanship, trying to look antique, with awful rim. Sorry to be so blunt, but you had better not believe you have inherited some masterwork.

 

Value: $100 or maybe even 150 if you are lucky (no, I am not interested).

[danae24]

Thank you all for your input and for correcting me. I like my tsuba, I did not think it was a masterpiece, sometimes rarity has value and I could not find another one like it so I was wondering if I categorized it correctly and if it had any significant value.

Given the valuation I was given, I will keep it.

 

Alex K.

[danae24]

Thank you Alan for your civilized response. Overall the responses were very helpful here, well Marius was a bit snobby but I took no offense, he does not know me and my knowledge in other forms of art.

 

I asked my art restorer friend in the past about a different art piece that was a bit rusty and she said to use WD40 on it and rub it. It worked fine. I used a touch on this tsuba and it looks great, but I will definitely buy the antler horn spray, it makes sense. I had a hard time to post photo of the cleaned tsuba because the photo had too many MB's and was not accepted by this site, so I used an older unclean photo with acceptable size.

 

I will email you the better pictures and thank you in advance for your offer to educate me further.

All the best,

 

Alex K.

[Brian]

Alex,

A lot of what is considered elitism or snobbery here is actually merely due to the difficulty in conveying tone via the internet, and language differences.

Mariusz was surely being quite helpful, but what might have been intended as "it is better that you do not consider this a masterpiece" for your own good, comes across differently if written another way. Also, expressing that "I am not talking it down because I am trying to buy it cheap" can sound like "I have no interest in it"

We believe in being blunt and to the point, which saves time. But trust me when I say we have a good bunch of guys here who are only trying to help without beating around the bush.

 

Brian

[danae24]

Thank you Brian for the note, I am here to learn, so no offense, everybody has their own way of expressing opinion. Blunt is OK too when true. At least Mariusz gave me an idea about its value. If anyone else has another opinion about price I don't know yet.

Alex K.

[Marius]

Alex,

 

I must admit, I am a total snob and an elitist swine :D I simply had to use this wonderful opportunity to show it

[hxv]

Alex,

 

Not meaning to beat a dead horse, but Mariusz is a very nice gentleman who has always given good advice. In an event,

 

but I will definitely buy the antler horn spray,

 

Just to be sure we are on the same page, there is no antler horn spray. What you need to do is purchase actual antlers, and physically rub the antler on the surface of the tsuba to slowly remove the red rust without harming the patina.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[danae24]

Oh, thank you Hoahn, I misunderstood the advice on Antler Horn, there is an antler horn spray in the market used by bodybuilders! I was going to spay my tsuba with it,

I don't know who sells antler horns for this purpose, I see them as decorative pieces usually for sale. I will figure it out.

 

Thank you,

 

Alex K.

[Soshin]

Hi Alex K.,

 

Here is a fine example of a Tenpo tsuba in my collection: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15769. I have more photos and information on my website.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[hxv]

Alex,

 

Check on ebay (where else?). They are cheap, and 1 or 2 pieces of small antlers will last you a very long time. I have an extra piece I can give you for free. If you wish, PM me your mailing address and I'll mail a piece to you.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[christianmalterre]

Hoaffablo :D

missed that threat here-sorry for delay of mine post!

Is this an Oal or rather an toad depicted here?

LOL!

Funny piece!

(don´t be so harsh here Gentlemen )

Alex,do keep it!-It´s pretty very cool and funny in fact!(Me do Love it!!!!)

(once you do have an good collection to show and discuss to an collectors friend during nice evening meeting-the last one you lay on table must be THIS one...LOL!)

No joke!-pretty funny Tsuba for everybody(who did not see it yet) i think....

Laugh!

It´s Cool!

:D

 

Christian

[hxv]

Christian,

 

I don't see it at all...I must confess that to me, it just looks like the frog/toad is taking a dump under the crescent moon. I'm sorry, but I don't see anything else.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[christianmalterre]

but that´s it!

Hoanh-please do not be that harsh here...Laugh!

It´s certainly not an masterpiece me equally do confess of course!

It but did give me an nice smile on mine face when just seeing it here 10 minutes ago!

 

Nobody does force you to buy it

 

Christian

[hxv]

Christian,

 

If you see that, too, then I feel relieved (no punt intended). I'm not a deviant after all.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[christianmalterre]

LOL!

:D

Me

[ROKUJURO]

Gentlemen,

 

to me the depicted animal is closer to a TANUKI than to a frog.

[danae24]

Looks more than a little monster with golden eyes, a tanuki is more likely. Here are more pictures.

Alex K.

[Tanto54]

Come on guys, haven't you ever seen a Fukuro (Owl) before? It's sitting in a hole in a tree under the moonlight.

[watsonmil]

Dear George,

Excellent ! Yes an OWL .... I was going to comment earlier, ... but given the negative tone, and the abismal identification of the depicted subject ( and Brian's excuse for other's bad manners ) I bit my tongue, ... but what the hell. Now my response to Alex, ... ( if you're still with us ), ... is that although I agree it is not a masterpiece, ... it is not as bad as some here would have you believe. In my ( humble ) opinion, ... it is actually not bad at all. The artist/craftsman is conveying a rustic - rugged interpretation of the subject, ... and AGAIN in my humble opinion has done so quite nicely. If I were sitting around a table with friends, ... it would most certainly not be the last to set before their eyes. Keep your tsuba Alex and enjoy it. I sincerely hope it is the beginning of an enjoyable hobby and learning experience for you. I enjoyed studying your tsuba ( as best as photography allows ), ... and look forward to your posting any future finds. By the way Alex, ... I've been collecting the Arts of the Samurai for 35 years ... which is longer than some of those who post here have been around.

... Ron Watson

[danae24]

Thank you Mr. Watson for taking the time to write and confirm the owl and for your encouragement. There has been no consensus about the date and school of this Tsuba. I would like to hear your opinion.

 

Best regards,

 

Alex K.

[watsonmil]

Dear Alex,

There are much more specialized tsuba collectors than I. I would hazard a guess at mid to late edo. School ?? Best to direct your query as to school to David Stiles ... user name : Soshin . He is very much a gentleman and very knowlegable on the subject of tsuba. I would be interested in knowing the size of this tsuba and thickness however ... if you could post please.

... Ron Watson

[Soshin]

Hi Alex K.,

 

From looking at your last photograph of the tsuba I would say likely a school work of the Aizu Shoami school circa the late Edo Period. The critical points in my eyes are the deeply hammered surface, raised rim, and the high relief carving with soft metal inlay. All of these techniques were used by the Aizu Shoami school often together. Your don't see this complex of inlay work or high relief carving in Tenpo tsuba also Tenpo tsuba would often have only small dot inlays, small openwork designs, and/or hot stamps applied to a hammered surface. Hope you find the information helpful.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[danae24]

Thank you Mr. Watson for your recommendation. The size of the tsuba is 7.4 cm x 6.8 cm x .32cm

 

Mr. Stiles thank you for taking the time to give me your opinion. Aizu Shoami and Mito are the closest descriptions for this tsuba.

 

Thank you all for your input.

 

Alex K.