Opinions please

[peterd]

Hi NMB,

 

I like the carving on this Tsuba but I'm not sure on the Mei. Can I have your opinions please?

 

Many thanks,

Pete

[Soshin]

Hi Pete,

 

I think the tsuba would look better as a mumei. I can only read one Kanji on this poor carved mei and that is saku (作). Needless to say I am not expert on Edo Period Kinko tsuba.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[John A Stuart]

Trying to be Goto Seijo 後藤清乗 There were 8 masters in this school and I don't know which this is supposed to be, but, the mei looks spurious. John

[peterd]

Thanks Dave

You are right would be better mumie. However i think the kanji on the right was done by the same hand as the carving.

Mimi is good quality shakudo.

Size is 73 by 78mm.

 

Thanks Pete

[Soshin]

Thanks Dave

You are right would be better mumie. However i think the kanji on the right was done by the same hand as the carving.

 

Hi Pete D.,

 

I agree the right mei does looks different then the left one. The left one was likely added much later by someone other then the tsubako likely a conman. Having the left gimei removed by a professional sounds like a good idea. If you do please post before and after photos on NMB.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[John A Stuart]

Excuse me, but, the mei is Goto Seijo. You can't have the left being right and the right being wrong or visa versa; it is all wrong to me. Now these Shitaya Goto did indeed use this katakiribori technique, but, forget the signature and assess the work. Compare examples available on the web with this work, does it compare? Just a quick illustration of one with this technique and another illustrating the use of iron base within this ha. John

[Pete Klein]

As John said, it's not right. It's a copy of a theme by Yokoya Soyo and is gimei. Here is an example of Soyo, please forgive the scan quality. It's from the Machibori book by Fukushi sensei:

 

PS: shakudo is black and mimi refers to the rim (edge). From what I observe this is patinated suaka, but Ford is the go-to man on this. Here is a reference:

http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/nmb/ ... f=2&t=2745

[Soshin]

Hi John S. and Pete K.,

 

Thanks for the additional information and scan is really helpful as a shoshin example of Yokoya Soyo as well as Goto Seijo work. Early on I didn't get into kinko tosogu as I know there are many fakes and gimei. I don't know much about kinko tsuba but I am willing to learn so keep it coming and thank for you time. :D

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[george trotter]

Hi David,

I am not a tosogu scholar, but my first impression of this tsuba was that it was a copy piece. That being said, removing the mei or part of the mei is not appropriate IMHO. Better to just label it "copy of...." and leave it as is.

I would only consider removing a mei if it was added to a genuine work...if both work and mei are copy/gimei just accept it for what it is.

Just my opinion.

Regards,

[Soshin]

Hi George T.,

 

I would consider myself fairly knowledge in old iron tsuba but not in signed kinko tosogu. Would the gimei tsuba be considered a good, average, or poor example of katakiri-bori technique? The detail shown in Pete K. scan is just wonderful would it represent an exceptional example of the technique?

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Brian]

This one would fall in the mediocre level. There have been tons of examples of good katakiri posted here before, a search will show some.

The lines should flow like painting, and should show confidence, flow and even tapering. It's one of the ones that is fairly obvious.

 

Brian

[Soshin]

It's one of the ones that is fairly obvious.

 

Hi Brian,

 

What "ones" or "one" are you referring to. I just need some clarification what you are talking about.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Brian]

David,

What I mean is that katakiri quality is one of the easier techniques to identify if it is good or not. Not that it is easy, but once you have seen very good work, the less stuff becomes obvious.

Unlike iron quality or bones or some of the other techniques that take a long time to identify.

It is more like nanako. See some very good work, and the other copies become obvious.

Here is an example of good katakiri. Compare with the original one, and the lack of quality becomes clear.

 

 

Also, there is a good topic on this here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6795

 

Note this example

 

 

The ones that began this topic can be compared more directly with those in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8975

 

Brian

[peterd]

Thanks for everybody's comments. All were really helpful. Mimi is Shakudo as can now be seen. I always knew that the Tsuba was not Goto but thought it was slightly better than average. I still feel that the right hand Mei was done by the carver although Gimei and the left hand Mei was a spurious later addition.

 

Any further comments are very welcome (good or bad).

 

Many thanks,

Pete