FlorianB

I have still doubts. Certainly an auction house would not admit offering junk - they just want to sell. I don’t know what interest You have in this peculiar tsuba but my advice is: be careful. Nearly 1300 Euro (PLUS additional charge and VAT about 16 - 1700 Euro) is an amount of money You should better invest in a distinct quality. Florian

Hi Marco, judging by the picture the Tsuba is junk. I don’t know to which auction house You do refer, but serious auction houses won’t offer cast things. There are experts who judge the items if they are worth to be offered. Nowadays (as far as my experience goes) Tsuba below the middle class are even often declined. However, speaking about auctions I think it is worth to take the chance for preview. Here You can handle the auction items and train Your eyes on different qualities. This is by far more important than looking at pictures. If You could not manage study the auction catalouges also to get a feeling for prices. Look for the results, too. Catalouges and results should be nowadays online available. Best, Florian

Hello, defintiveley not an very old one. The motif is what Jean wrote and You can consider if the two dots at the bottom are udenuki-ana. The otafuku-gata-shape hint to Edo period. The tomoe is adapted to the shape - this is a later design attitude, too. The large halfcircled hitsu-ana can be found on later Edo period examples (Higo and others). The surface looks old with it’s rough structure - however it looks too perfect to be a result of rusting over the centuries. It’s artificial done by chiseling. As I said before on this board there are Tsuba from 18th/19th century so cleverly done You think they’re very old at the first glance. Finally, though I’m not able to sort out the school the combination of styles and motif elements hint IMHO to late Edo (18th century at the earliest). Florian

Hello, I’m convinced You did a careful job and certainly I don’t blame You of any fire-treatment. But I repeat: the inner sides must not been cleaned! The shot I’ve made isn’t best quality but I hope You get the point. Note the contrast of the polished plate as well as the rim and the unpolished (though slightly rusty) inner sides. Especially on filigree motifs the rust can be very deep, so if You rub off the rust eagerly holes could appear and even the delicate bars simply could crumble to nothing. FlorianB

Hello, it seems, that the inner sides have been elaboratly cleaned, too. This should never be done! However, several spots with a dull appearance and the crusty patch on the seppa dai hint to damage by fire - so it’s not a great loss. FlorianB

Hi Evan, the shot was taken from Masayuki Sasano’s “Early Japanese Sword Guards - Sukashi Tsuba” published 1974. I remembered this peculiar tsuba because of the rather unusual design that seems not typical for Owari. Furthermore it is the only one with Musashino motif in my books and picture collection with pierced dewdrops. Florian

Evan, indeed a gorgeous tsuba! Judging by the pictures alone and without knowledge of the dimensions the steel surface and the seppa-dai (as mentioned above) could hint to Kyo, because of the sturdy execution it shows otherwise Owari traits. But that's only speculation. It was a very popular subject so I think, also other schools can be considered. I'm not sure, but are there horizontal layers visible in nakago-ana and the hitsu-ana, too? I found a similar Owari-tsuba in Sasano's book, classified as late Muromachi. Yours must be later, IMHO about early Edo - Genroku. Florian

Jean, at first I thought so too, but the linear traces appear only partial on the rim and they aren't easily visible so I was lucky to catch them in the shot. Florian

Certainly I know about the general function of these protrusions but I’m eager to know what the artist depicts in them. So I risk to annoy - or bore - You all. Concerning the function of an artist I have been misunderstood. I meant that we can’t compare a traditional metalworker with a contemporary artist producing - for example - abstract pictures or objects and interpret these however he likes. So the design of the menuki could’nt be abstract but was derived from anything of Japanese origin. The suggestion it could be a drum is very helpful. Thanks Markus! Indeed I forgot that tomoe are a common decoration on drumheads and I will research into this subject. Florian

Guido, I get Your point, but the presented extensions depict pincers, bars, ken and even the rhombic design in Ray’s menuki can be easily identified as matsukawabishi. I‘m afraid to become a nuisance, but taking into consideration that the metalwork artists get their motifes out of everyday life, nature, history, religion and so on I can’t imagine that the design shown in this peculiar menuki should mean nothing. It is too exceptional and elaborate executed to be a result at the whim of an artist. However, be it as it may - perhaps future will bring an answer. Florian

Tomoe-mon are often depicted on roof tiles as protective charms. I wonder if the upper half depicts a simplyfied roof which is mirrored to get a balanced design. Florian

Hello, I saw this pair of menuki offered on the Aoi-Art-page : https://www.aoijapan.com/menuki-mumei-tomoe I wonder, what is shown here? There’s no need to talk about the tomoe-mon, but I have no idea what the strange form in the background should be. Is it some kind of implement? Maybe You could clearify it. Best, Florian

Tosho tsuba have been made until late Edo and some of the later ones are so cunningly made they look older as they are. Thus it is sometimes difficult to determine the actual age. Your Tsuba seems to be an old one. However, from my point of view the nakago-ana appears newer. Note the sharp-angeled edges - in comparision to the smooth edges of the sukashi - and the notches left for sekigane. This don’t fit to Ko-Tosho. At least it is not in the original form but has been modified later. FlorianB

Thank to Markus - the correct name is very helpful! Also thanks to John for his further particulars! Best, FlorianB

Gentlemen, in Mr. Hawley’s book about “mon” is mentioned in connection with the “myoga-mon” on page 33 a deity named MANDARASHIN (or Madarashin as it is written there, too). Alas, I can’t find anything about this god although he seemed to have been very popular in the Muromachi period. The only hits in the internet are sides repeating Mr. Hawley’s lines. Because of private research I would be glad if anybody could tell me more about this god. FlorianB

Again thanks for Your opinions. In case of Japanese blades it is in most cases a downgrade when the style is not typical for a smith or school (kawari-deki). In how far this applies to tsuba as well I don’t know. Recently I’ve heard by an expert that even the traditional classification of tsuba-”schools” has to be reviewed because many producers worked in different styles either because they where inspired by other works or to satisfy customers wishes. My tsuba maybe seems to support this assumption. Florian

Hello, thanks for Your answers - and the enlightment. Of course I’m fully aware that You can not take ONE detail into consideration and ignore the rest. However, I just wanted another opinion to what I’ve heard about these tagane. At least I’m not wondering any more that the paper accompanying this particular tsuba claims it to be made around Genroku. This “discrepancy” would have been my next question - no need any more. Sincerly, FlorianB

Gentlemen, in the picture below You can see yose-tagane above and below the nakago-ana (on the right side highlighted). I was told, that this special kind of tagane were in use during Muromachi-period to fit the tsuba to the tang. Later on (as You are no doubt aware) soft metals have been used for this purpose. So, is it a rule that the age of a tsuba can be pinned down to Muromachi by the appearance of these yose-tagane? Sincerly, FlorianB

Meanwhile I’m wondering, too, about the request. Do You want to get in contact with collectors of this special topic to exchange experience and knowledge? Sincerly, Florian

Shoami, yes, this COULD BE the ultimate answer, but not a satisfying one, I’m afraid. Nice try, Mauro. Mikolaj, a gorgeous collection, I’m deeply impressed! Arnold, I agree with you that the curvature in the upper part of the seppa dai differs on each side. This was a helpful advice! In future I will pay more attention to a carefully examination of seppa-dai. Finally, what do You think about the tekkotsu? Does it go with Kyo? I remember a similar discussion in which the apperance of tekkotsu was the decisive clue for an Owari-attribution. Sincerly, Florian

Thanks for Your replies. Concerning the quality: IMHO it is a very good tsuba and this is the opinion of our leading german expert, too. Although I must admit the difficulty to assess the tsuba by my moderate pictures. I understand that the pictures by Mikolay show all the same tsuba, on one hand offered as Kyo-Sukashi - and as an example for Owari on the other hand. Well, You see my problem... However, it is interesting to compare both pieces. The shape of the kiri on the tsuba in Mikolaj's post appear in my eyes more like Kyo, but the seppa-dai and the ryo-hitsu hint to Owari. Furthermore the herein mentioned time offers a wider range. I think, if it is Owari it can't be older than early Edo, if it is Kyo it could be earlier, around Momoyama. Thanks thus far, Florian

Gentlemen, I want to show You a Tsuba. The size is 81 x 82 mm / 3,18” x 3,22”, the thickness 4,8 mm / 0,18”. There is no niku and the surface has a moist look (uruoi). My first impression was Kyo-Sukashi because of the thin plate, the small, rounded rim and the sumptuous composition. The hitsu-ana, too, appear a little bit squeezed. However, the design lacks the elegance and airiness of Kyo. The kiri look more like those I’ve seen in Owari-works. Furthemore, twisted-looking linear tekkotsu partially are seen in the rim. After all - Owari? I’m puzzled... I would be grateful to get Your opinions. Sincerly, Florian

Hi Florian, I think, there’s no need to change signature. Latetly I’m not very active at the NMB and if we are mixed up - so what? If You like to exchange thoughts feel free to send me a mail. FlorianB

Dear Eric, dear Florian, I have to admit that I am the guy who wrote the lines about the “Aesthetics in Japanese Sword” and I’m honoured to read that You appreciate my thoughts. Maybe You know that since the 1980s a lot of papers had been issued in the NBTHK-EB by several members. However, nearly all those articles deal with the technical aspects of Nihonto and as long as I am interested in the Japanese Sword I struggled with its artistic value. At least I tried to put my own ideas in the paper mentioned above and published it several years ago for both the members of the NBTHK-EB and the Nihonto Club. Later I also enclosed it slightly modified in the german edition of the first NC cataloge. Your comments suggest that my lines are of a certain use. Finally, it is interesting to have a namesake in this message board who starts his own efforts to gain knowledge in Nihonto. FlorianB

Thank You all for Your opinions. At least I’m not disappointed because as I mentioned before this tsuba is just of secondary interest for me. It is part of a koshirae stored away for about ten years and was „rediscovered“ recently while searching for a carving work. Just because of the extensive signature and my uncertainty of the quality I thought it could be an interesting piece for discussion. Now I’m wiser - and that’s what I gained for! Greetings, Florian