cabowen

Don't quite follow you there Grey, how is that possible?

The photos of the hamon show that it is oil quenched......

It is hard to believe that none of that was visible in the photos on Aoi's site..... The blade appears to be done in masame, which is very prone to kitae ware. That being said, the rough, open areas in the shinogi-ji are quite excessive and perhaps the result of poor forging and/or repeated polishing. I believe Tsuruta san had a return policy in the past. If that is still the case, I would take advantage of it......

You did nothing unethical here as far as I can see. Clearly the seller is confused (or not)...

I based my assessment on the words of the op, to wit: a "deep stamp", assuming it was indeed stamped into the blade. If it is in fact something glued on, then of course it would have been something added later. Wondering how something protruding from the nakago would allow the blade to fit into the tsuka????? Yes, as Ford has observed and George has commented, the signature is extremely poor and typical of the mass produced showa-to which came out of Seki. I very much doubt it would be found to be a traditionally made blade.

I have always had a "no active auction discussion" policy on my internet chat group and while I have taken some abuse over it in the past, I have stuck with it and still believe it is a good policy on many levels. I personally try to avoid comment on active auctions as well when posting on other chat groups. My basic view is that if you have to ask others questions about an item on auction you shouldn't be bidding in the first place.....

Interesting....doesn't appear to be very old....what kind of blade is in it?

it was probably a company or factory stamp. Now we know the origins of pac man....

the stamp is original and there is no way to remove it without removing a major quantity of steel.....not the job of a togi....

Wow, that is really out there....never have I seen anything quite like that!

Yes, it is weak and looks more like amateur work. I would give this one a wide berth....

chinese.....

The hamachi will tell the tale.....

I believe what Brian is saying is that there is not an identifiable sugata associated with Shinshinto as, during that period, as you yourself have acknowledged, many smiths were attempting to recreate the works of the koto period. Thus, rather than a distinctive sugata for the period, there is a rather broad range of shapes making it a bit difficult to judge a blade shinshinto by the shape....

Unless I am mistaken, the first looks like iron, the second brass....

The only thing they have in common is the motif- different artists and different materials....it is not surprising that the prices are different.

And in that we have a kernel of true wisdom.....

I think there was a variety of ways in which these were made....perhaps Ford will offer some insights into the subject....

You mean like this: Seriously??? You can only offer advice....people can do with it what they want. Plenty of people here have done the right thing and tried to help the OP, whether he realizes it or not.....If he wishes to take offense, that is his choice, as is his decision to continue to chase poor quality swords. I only wish him the best of luck....

kitae-ware is a flaw in the forging, a delamination of layers. That is what this looks like to me. A fukure is a blister, can be open or closed, that results from impurities in the weld- usually a carbon inclusion. They do not follow the seam of a weld generally and when still closed, do protrude a bit....

It could say many things, but what it says to me is that the seller is not too smart to sell them to you for less than Phillip was prepared to bid..... I think you are missing the point(s): first of all, quite bluntly, you are asking opinions on junk. If you really understood quality, you wouldn't be flooding this board with photos of low end, utilitarian, flotsam. Secondly, you don't even seem aware that buying swords on auction based on the poor quality photos you are providing is a fool's errand. You seem to infer that because Phillip was interested in them, they have some sort of merit....Phillip buys and sells. Surely these are all merchandise for him as there is never a shortage of people at the low end. I have seen some of his collection; none of these items would have stayed long. There has been a steady stream of people plastering poor quality pictures here of poor quality swords looking for opinions. They are always full of enthusiasm and zeal, and that is always refreshing to see. They inevitably receive the same advice- learn what quality is first. Many would rather learn the hard way and usually end up throwing away a lot of money and ending up with junk. Sometimes they spend their way smart, but more often they end up bitter and gone...While it may not seem like people are trying to help, it would be so much easier to just stay silent and let the uninformed waste their money buying junk. I have been told by several old timers to shut up- the new collector has traditionally served as the dumping ground for the mistakes of the older collector...That function continuous despite the best efforts of many... The smart ones take the advice of those that have been there, spend the first $3000-$4000 on books, take time to see as many good swords as they can, visit collectors, learn to read mei, and otherwise become able to spot low quality. They usually end up with knowledge and good swords. There is a very steep learning curve here, in case you haven't figured that out. It treads up the side of a canyon, in fact, and that canyon is littered with the remains of those that thought there was a short cut....

Nothing wrong with that....

Until you have studied and educated yourself to the point where you can identify quality yourself, you are wasting a lot of time (yours and everyone else's here) and inevitably, money. You have posted 3-4 swords here asking for opinions. What if a quarter of the people tell you to buy sword 1, another quarter sword 2, and so on..??? Which will you buy? If you have no clue as to which, if any, of these swords is worth purchasing, why does it matter which you buy? You have posted poor photos, without any mention of price or other important information. How can you reasonably expect to receive any information of any real value? Garbage in, garbage out, so they say... I will offer this opinion- if you don't know which, if any, to buy, you could not go wrong by passing all of these by... I can understand the dearth of info available in NZ. Might I suggest you contact a couple there, the same couple that have had a rather expensive shinshinto blade on ebay that you have mentioned. Phillip and Susie are two of the most charming people you will meet. They are sure to offer you valuable advice and assistance. I would spend more time getting in touch with them and less soliciting people over an internet site. I sympathize with your situation but really, take a deep breath and relax, slow down, swords will be there when you are ready for them. Without any sort of understanding of what you are looking at, you are a goldfish in a piranha tank. And believe me, this tank is full of piranha...

I'm curious as to where a westerner (Reeves) fits in....

There were those that made strictly tsuba, but from what I know, there wasn't really a separate group that made strictly kozuka, but rather metal artists who made the various fittings- kozuka, kogai, menuki, etc. They were organized by school. Yours looks like later work, 19th century would seem reasonable. Very hard to say which school it belongs to as it is not distinctive in the workmanship. Many were made for export later in the 19th century and they are all more or less toys....