John C

All of the above I should think. It seems the longer a sword has been around, the least likely it will have matching numbers. This lends credence to the observation that souvenir swords, for the most part, have matching numbers because they were not used in combat. And by matching numbers I mean the painted nakago numbers matching the numbers stamped on the fittings. John C.

Thank you, Mark. I had a note about Yasuki steel but it started with a different kanji, which is what threw me. John C.

One the reverse side of an Asano Kanezane blade. The first character looks like An as in Ansei, though that wouldn't make sense given the smith. Any help would be appreciated. John C.

This is what makes the whole assembly number thing interesting to me. The fittings are made for a particular sword so they need to keep track. But with the possible exception of souvenir swords, the numbers on the blade usually do not match the numbers on the fittings. Lots of reasons for this - damage to original fittings usually - but why do replacement fittings all have the same number? If the entire set were remade, I would think the numbers would match the blade; if the parts were piece-meal (use whichever one fits), I would expect there to be a variety of fitting numbers on each blade. I also think the reason we see consistent numbers on souvenir blades and fittings goes back to damage - not being used during the war means less damage and less chance of needing, or even finding, replacements. I just think there is something more to the "assembly number" thing than what we currently know. And I get that I am the lone voice in the wilderness on this, however I would like to complete the puzzle - even if I know what the picture already looks like. John C.

The overall shape of the nakago and alignment of the machi seem legit, though. Bohi looks okay. Not sure about this one. Just my one-and-a-half cents. John C.

It's a gendaito made in 1944. I am not 100 percent sure of the regs imposed by the Occupying forces, however I think it would have been illegal for someone not under contract by the Army to hand forge a sword right after the war. I think that may have changed around 1952 or so? Not sure. John C.

The mei on my Kanehide gendaito has the green assembly number paint inside as well. So clearly applied after the sword was finished. But when, where, by whom, and for what exact reason are the questions I am trying to answer through a study of assembly numbers. Nothing interesting to report so far. The only patterns I have identified to this point are that 1) some smiths (or shops; or factories) used the same paint color consistently and 2) the number of digits seems to be consistent (usually 2,3, or4 with some having a katakana or western letter prefix). John C.

Thank you guys. I am interested in this topic. But could "Oshima" have sold or given the sword to Lt. Kume? That would mean Oshima could still be the original owner, although I think in any case it was put there by the shop - either as their name or the name of the person who ordered it. Just thinking out loud, John C.

I think you are right that we just can't pin it down yet. It would be nice to know if those ladies were in a shop or in a factory. Long hallway like a factory but I don't know anything about what a shop may have looked like. Based on the numbering style and position, I still think the same person wrote them. But where, I have no clue. John C.

Makes sense. On my type 98, all of the fittings have beautifully stamped kanji numbers except the one part that is hidden. The wooden saya insert has the Western numbers. John C.

I see it now. Then I think definitely final polish before delivery. John C.

Here is a rough translation of just the written part if anyone needs it. John C. Gendaito info.docx

I was wondering the same thing. Why would they use the language of the "enemy"? But your idea does give me something else to track...are western style numbers seen earlier, later, or all through out the war. Thank you, John C.

Hello everyone: I am currently researching "assembly" numbers and their exact meaning and usage. But I was struck by the usage of both Western and Japanese numbers on the same gunto fittings. Does anyone know why they would do that? I could come up with a few theories, however I am interested in what you all (ya'll) think. Thank you for your time, John C.

It looks a bit like a Changhua seal stone in the form of a Foo dog. Just my opinion but the carving seems a bit unrefined. John C.

Yes. John C.

Bruce: A couple of interesting things stand out in that photo. Firstly, all of the numbers are in English and written in the same orientation...so by the same person? Secondly, I think they are doing a final polish (no fittings around them, jars of something next to them, and thumbs appear to be rubbing the blade). Still unsure which came first. The blades could have been fitted prior to final polish (to remove any marks or fingerprints) or they are still waiting fitting after final polish, though it would normally be the former rather than the latter. John C.

I would submit in most cases they do not. A sampling or survey gives us a range from which we can make certain assumptions, for example length of blades, based primarily on measures of central tendency. Given a certain range of lengths, we can infer what the mean length might be and any outliers. Conversely, an official document tells us exactly what the length should be. Will "real world data" agree with the document? Sometimes. But often times, for whatever reason, official guidelines are not followed. That's why all methods of investigation and research are important. John C.

Agreed. Ohmura notes a "half-forge" sword suggesting it was made with "mill steel" using a power hammer (he uses the term air hammer), yet quenched in water. So not tamahagane steel, which may explain the nakago color and very tight hada, if this one falls in that category. John C.

So do you think these are assem-bly numbers? Or could they possibly be assemb-ler numbers? John C.

Nick: The general rule is 0-1 shaku (about 12 inches) is a tanto; 1-2 shaku (12-24 inches) is a wakizashi; and over 2 shaku is a katana. John C.

Bruce: As you know, I'm tracking assembly numbers so thanks for the chart. In addition, if they are actually assembly numbers, I would not expect too much variation. Indeed, the array of numbers so far is starting to make me wonder what their true purpose is. Not pertinent to this particular chart, however I think the assembly numbers for souvenirs all use black paint. John C.

Rob: I was able to attach a loop to my crap camera and found some interesting areas. Looks like martensite crystals, however I don't know if that necessarily indicates water quenching. What do you think? John C.

The original label noted they had offices in Dairen (Manchuria) and Berlin, among other places. An export company perhaps? John C

...And he shouldn't have. These two methods of discovery can be mutually exclusive. Sampling, whether through direct observation or extended survey, in an effort to make a prediction based on inferential statistics (what you call real world data) is effective. But so is finding a document that unequivocally says the same thing directly. For example, I can sample hundreds of short gunto swords in an effort to determine if there were an established minimum length. Or, I can refer to the document that Nick found and translated that states directly what the minimum length for a gunto should be. I think if the book writers had access to many of the same documents, they would have used them. Just my opinion on the validity of research methods. John C.