Matsunoki

To me it looks a late Muromachi period Mino Tanto. The polish is “interesting” . It seems to have a very pronounced Hadori finish that bears absolutely no relation to the actual visible gunome hamon. This (coupled with working simply from images) makes it difficult to see any of the finer details in the hamon. The hamon looks to dip fairly close to the ha in places. Could you show an image of the whole blade without the habaki and with the tip pointing upwards?

Dan, I see from your reaction above that I have confused you. Please let me explain. All the statements I have quoted above are pure assumptions on your part. You use words like “obviously” “evidently” “I would suspect” etc with no evidence whatsoever. You then go on to use those assumptions to validate your arguments. The word “expert” needs to be viewed with some caution (an understatement in many cases). Also the duration for which a business has existed is no guarantee that they are experts or that they use experts. It merely suggests that they have successfully bought and sold things and have survived. I have known dealers who have been in business for similar periods to those you cite who wouldn’t know a good thing if they dropped it on their foot! Let alone tell cast tsuba from forged iron. I’m not “having a go” at dealers…..I was one for very many years……and I met many thoroughly professional ones over those years. I also met some who would say anything and tell you anything to secure a sale. But be clear….I am not judging the ones you mention above and in my opinion there are many on this forum that I would deem to be true experts in their fields …..truly worthy of respect. Please …..stick to facts, not assumptions.

Dan, that is a huge and dangerous assumption!!! Why is it obvious?

I understand Brian, and all of us (or hopefully most of us ) are very grateful and (again hopefully) we don’t begrudge you getting something in return for keeping us straight and narrow and safe. However, in order to increase the income you have to charge something for something!……and if people leave the forum because of a £10 membership fee you haven’t actually lost anything financially except for a few mean members! Obviously gold members, dealers etc would be paying more anyway and would remain totally unaffected. The amazing translators we have here could be rewarded by free gold membership at your discretion as could others who go “above and beyond” by providing excellent research links/materials etc You would generate a lot of $ imo by charging guests a nominal fee for a months access. Anyway, I’ll shut up now…….I can’t help it…….early career 28 years in the Finance industry……but don’t hold that against me…..I’m nearly normal again now🙂 Thanks for all you do.

Brian, hope you are feeling improved. Are you trying to increase membership or increase income….or both? Ok, I’m a relative newcomer on here but I’m amazed at the number of members, obviously long-termers/regular contributors who are not gold members. The cost of gold is totally inconsequential to anyone who collects anything that we discuss on this forum ………………………..WHY SO MEAN FOLKS????………………… So, I’m sure it’s been considered before but why not simply charge for access to the site? Whenever I look at who is online there are usually far more guests than members all using the forum for free, all benefitting from the vast knowledge store that is here. Im not on any other social media but this forum is a bit different isn’t it? If all non-gold members paid a small annual fee , say $10, what sort of a difference would that make? Would you really leave the forum because of $10 a year? Where else would we ever get this kind of access and help? Then for non members, charge them say $5 for a months access? If they decide not to pay you loose nothing financially but if they do pay it’s a totally fresh income stream. I anticipate howls of objections but how much do you all spend on coffee every week? Just some random thoughts driven by economics

Mark, hello. what bothered me a bit firstly was the scuffing/abrasions you highlighted. Given that the rest of the blade is in excellent polish I ask myself “why are they there”? - especially when they go under the area that is usually protected by the habaki. That did not suggest wear and tear from normal withdrawals from the saya. I ask myself….are they there to disguise something? Then when I enlarged the image from the papers I don’t see the abrasions but I’ do see what looks like a thin dark line very slightly in from the edge that runs parallel to the edge (not like a hagire) in roughly the same location as the slight opening on the other side. Of course as Ray says, the papers give some assurance regarding condition but many things can happen to a blade after it has gone through Shinsa. I really am not trying to spoil your purchase and it may be absolutely nothing but you asked for any opinions. My comments are not meant to be an opinion……just think it’s worth having another look at that area both sides or getting a few closeup images at different angles. Also just another thought regarding the nakago kasane. If/when it had been reduced I would have thought the hi would get narrower rather than wider at that point. Im guessing a lot of $ are involved and thus who you are buying it from and how well you know them counts for a lot. I wish you good luck. Please let us know and I hope my concerns are ill-founded All the best Colin.

Steve, that’s very interesting because it probably shows whoever cut the Mei deliberately changed one Kanji to avoid any accusations of forgery, fakery etc…..they knew exactly what they were doing.

If you look even more carefully (than I did first time!) , the large sukashi flowers are Cherry…..indented petals …..but the smaller engraved ones have rounded petals without the indentations ie they are plum - and Jeremy is correct, plum blossom attach directly to the branch, cherry blossoms hang on a small stalk. So we do indeed have pine, plum and cherry.

The bag is Chinese, the saya looks Chinese, the cord looks Chinese……so why not the blade? I think you can buy that exact bag on Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/NINGWANG-Dragon-Phoenix-Katana-Samurai/dp/B09PTN7RVS/ref=sr_1_6?crid=1JNOO9UPUC6SB&keywords=Katana+bag&qid=1682010729&sprefix=katana+bag%2Caps%2C90&sr=8-6

The indentation on each petal suggests cherry blossom rather than plum?

It’s Chinese.

If you enlarge the photo from the paper it shows the side where the abrasions (now?) are and I am still nervous that they are there to cover something up……is that a crack or running flaw I’ve circled? Not trying to spoil it…..just best be sure before committing.

I’ve had a couple in the distant past that simply (re)used old slender (ie a bit tired) suriage wakizashi blades. I guess the blade and the koshirae depended on what the family could afford…..most Samurai were far from rich. Does anyone know if the sons of merchants were allowed to receive boys swords? The merchants would have been able to afford higher quality…..if regulations or customs allowed?

Nothing new there!🙂🙂 I’ll wrestle with it again tomorrow after a trip to the dentist. Thanks for your perseverance Grey. All the best Colin

Hmmmmm……any pics of the blade and koshirae? Quite a coincidence. Rather makes you wonder if these are “Meiji productions” albeit impressive looking swords with (probably) older blades (as Ray mentioned) Many thanks.

Mark, hello The area that you have circled in red looks like deliberate abrasion to me. If you look at the other side of the blade in exactly the same location…..is that a crack or a running opening in the forging that I have also circled in red? Could the scratching be there to hide it on the other side if it goes all the way through? It may be nothing but I’d ask a few more questions if it were me. Better to be cautious beforehand than regretful afterwards. Please let us know. All the best Colin

Thanks Geraint, I tried that and got this partial page that won’t load fully……maybe because I’m using an iPad?? Anyway, appreciate your help…..but I’ve given up. I think Jan nailed it anyway. Me and tech don’t always get along too well🙂 Speaking of sheds, I once bought a large bundle of about 12 assorted swords that were tied together with rope in a shed. Included was one nicely mounted katana! That was about 40 years ago! keep looking🙂 All the best. Colin

I must be doing something wrong. Do I have to be signed in or a member? Screen shots of what I put in and what it gives me…….

Thanks John. This sword was seriously grubby when I acquired it and I’ve gently cleaned the saya and the metalwork. Can’t touch the ito or the silk beneath it though. The grime is rather ingrained. The whole sword was a “time capsule” but remarkably the blade was totally unscathed and none of the hardware had got lost. The tsuka is still a perfect tight fit. Here are a few (not very good) images of the koshirae. All the best. Colin

Thanks Grey…. I did try that….”no results” again. Being persistent I tried several times and got the same result. I believe that is evidence of stupidity according to one definition!?🙂 All the best. Colin.

Looks more like some sort of punch marks to assist with a tight/correct fit? That’s not a 2 piece solid gold habaki is it?….looks nice quality

Jan, thank you so much. Very kind of you. I am never sure how much deviation we can accept when comparing Mei but as you say, it is very similar with only a couple of small variations and the yasurimei as you point out are matching. I don’t have enough knowledge to commit for certain but if I were a betting man……… Thanks again. All the best. Colin

Thanks Grey. I have done that and got “no results”. I guess because it’s a swordsmiths list and I haven’t got the smiths name?? I did find a list of Iga no Kami on Shoshin.com (copyright so cannot reproduce here) but I’m asking here hoping someone can narrow it down for me. My library is very lacking but my enthusiasm isn’t! All the best Colin

A very frustrating suriage! Please can anyone offer an opinion on the smith and period etc? Assuming it’s not gimei (yes I know - big assumption) the title Iga no Kami and also Minamoto narrows it down but my library and detailed knowledge are both lacking. Polish is old Japanese but tired and scuffed. A totally untouched sword in “found in a shed” condition. It looks Shinto to my inexperienced eyes, very tightly forged (Muji?) with well cut bohi. No obvious flaws. Hada not discernible, hamon is wide suguha in nioi. Nie only visible in boshi. The koshirae are very dirty and best left as they are I think. The silk under the Ito nor the ito itself will not survive any attempt to clean it I fear. Nagasa 66.5 cm but originally a fair bit longer Motohaba 3.2cm Sakihaba 2.3 cm Motokasane 8mm Many thanks for looking. All the best Colin