Matsunoki

Nope, totally wrong Jacques.You obviously don’t know me. I dont mind not knowing what it really is. I’m absolutely not afraid I’ve been fooled. I don’t care what it’s worth. My approach is very simple….I buy things that I like and/or that I think are interesting. This blade fitted both criteria for me ….and as for the size of the machi telling us it’s recently made when then nakago is so heavily re-worked including machi-okuri…..that’s a new one on me. Is that a new Kantei pointer……strong machi=new blade? Anyway, ended.

Jacques I apologise if you thought I was putting words in your mouth. I would never presume to do that and I never said that you had commented on school/smith. You obviously have knowledge that far outstrips mine but despite me asking several times for your views on the blade rather than just the nakago (the nakago is a wreck) you declined to respond. So, just to be clear…..these are your actual words on the sword in question including your opinion that’s it’s 20thC and that it is both suriage and ubu depending on which comment I read Please excuse my confusion🙂 I would still be interested if you could ignore the nakago and comment on anything you see in the blade….sugata, hada, hamon, kissaki etc. Yes I know the images are not perfect but they are pretty clear and surely they can tell us something?

This is one link where you commented. We continued the same conversation (on the same sword) on another topic which I will look for later. I am NOT prepared to re-debate as I don’t want to get myself banned from the forum. I will not respond to anything you say.

A couple of iron jobbies from Bonhams which struck a chord. Bonhams is a great search resource. I just put “tsuba tiger” into their search and then selected “past lots” Easy to lose a few hours trawling around in there. Get sidetracked easily! There are some superb tiger tsuba to choose to enjoy.

Perplexing tsuba this one is! Just to get the terminology right…..silver gilt is gold plating on solid silver. That’s not what we might be seeing on his collar. It could be heavily abraded silver nunome. It would make no sense to have silver on his nose…. is that just the iron showing through the rather strange patina? Also, when I first saw it I thought “cast fake” something about the surface texture so looking inside the nakago ana does that look like a cast granular surface? It certainly doesn’t look like it’s been filed in any way….. But I’m not saying it is wrong …..just somehow doesn’t seem to display that elusive “Japanese essence”. Great subject (I love tigers as well!) but clumsily handled.

Read what I said. I said you tried to trash one of my swords from images. I did not say you made a kantei. It was the suriage (probably o-suriage) machi-okuri katana that had a classic Nanbokucho sugata and very strong Yamato characteristics including numerous masame hada-ware etc etc . I’m not having the ridiculous debate again but if you insist I will quote your exact words where you even contradicted yourself, from memory firstly saying it was “new made to look old” then it was “suriage yesterday” then is was “ubu” I”m sure you can remember it…..if not I’ll go back and find it. I believe you also sent me a couple of offensive private messages and also publicly accused me of not knowing the difference between Art and good craftsmanship …whatever that meant. That one made me smile given I’ve dealt in the finest Japanese art for over 40 years. Any recollection now?

Didn’t stop you from trying to trash one of my swords purely from images. You even argued against several experienced people who had actually handled the sword…..and all from images….which you constantly tell us are insufficient. It was mumei so you can’t fall back on that. Can we assume that you will no longer comment on swords discussed on this forum?

Join the club🙂🙂🙂🙂but that’s nothing unusual in this subject.

Good luck Grev….I’m pondering similar…..be interesting. Let us know how it goes?

Hmmmm……I doubt that’s for “one of the great Tokugawa families” . Solid gold seppa…..doubtful? It does clarify the construction method which is interesting. Date??…..more likely to be late than early?? Not all old books are totally accurate maybe? Great find @Spartancrest

Possibly brand new koshirae? Please show example.

They did use shibuichi a fair bit…..once had a stunner of a double faced moon vase in shibuichi …..but granted nowhere near as common as their assorted bronze alloys or shakudo. I personally don’t believe they actually made the nunome zogan pieces that bear their mark…..I think that Komai workshops made them for them. That happened a lot in Meiji…..sub contract work. That’s not surprising. There are no absolutely definitive lists of who worked for who in Meiji…..things developed so quickly and artists moved around and also took on sub-contract commissions.

The Nogawa studio produced some of the very finest Meiji metalwork pieces of truly mind boggling quality. For years their output was overlooked as “studio work” but last 20 years it is receiving a lot more attention and prices for the best items are skyrocketing. OK they had a more commercial output in later Meiji and into Taisho but they never succumbed to mass produced tat. Please take the time to look at this…….its wonderful…. https://steveslyjapa...ter-caddy-by-nogawa/

Love to see images🙂🙂

That blade is definitely not tourist Geraint. Nice elegant blade that importantly has kept its symmetry…..very easy to spoil that with a poor polish. The shape is very subtle…..imo….but I like Ken. Had a belter once and like a twit, sold it. Have never found another.☹️

Looks a bit too nice to be tourist Geraint? Certainly not cheap tourist! Ken go way back in Japanese history …..Heian period I think. They are often offered to and thus associated with Buddhist Temples and Shinto shrines. Fudo Myo-o wields a Ken as does Shoki the Demon catcher. They have attracted the attention of some of the finest Japanese metalworkers. How about this one….. https://steveslyjapa...anto-wakizashi-copy/

More likely to be read as Tadakazu if on Meiji metalwork. I know there was a Tadakazu working for the Nogawa studio. What is the object…..looks shibuichi?

Meant to add koshirae most likely Meiji period.

The koshirae looks like very nice lacquer to me. Can’t clearly see the “bone like” claws but they are likely carved and inset ivory. Nice quite rare item.

Museum closes. Stuff gets de-accessioned. Stolen. Sometimes private museums sell stuff to raise funds. My feeling is that it is old though judging by the enamel colours and pitting and definite nod towards Chinese Ming cloisonné

Says who????…….and coming from a scientist???!!. Maybe we should all go back to caves and wooden clubs and start fires using sticks rubbed together. ……it also pushes and enables people to vastly expand their knowledge and understanding on just about any subject thus knowing far more than they did before. …..but I do agree not all opinions are equal. Some are vastly inflated…….and I know that mine are worthless - except to me.

Thomas, thanks. He meant exactly the opposite of what he said? That could be confusing in a topic discussing Shinsa and gimei🙂 Im still not sure which “world” we are talking about though Anyway we are all entitled to our opinions are we not? Best.Colin

Can anyone explain this please? what world are we talking about? who are we light years ahead of? I’ve read it many times and makes no sense

Yes @Brian is right……it’s not good enough for Hirata. Wrong rabbit hole.

No, that’s a big assumption. It was a long time ago and reliable records are not plentiful. It is likely that pieces for the shogunate were indeed unsigned but it is also possible that pieces not destined for the shogunate were unsigned as well. It is also possible that your tsuba emerged from its final kiln firing in this rather damaged condition. I was not clear earlier…..it could be fire damage from firing or fire damage from a later incident. There is no way to be sure…..and that’s pretty frustratingly normal in this complex often undocumented subject☹️ I can’t help you re exactly where the school was but if they worked for the main Shogun family then Edo is a good guess. You’ll have to do some more digging🙂