Matsunoki

This thread has been heavily “cleaned up” by admin thus removing just about all of the malicious, spiteful, sneering, insulting and derogatory comments from @rayhan but even after that I wonder if any newbies reading a thread that was intended to guide them will actually think “yeah, I really want to get into all this”. I also wonder why many of the “seniors” on this excellent Forum are not “calling out” this ridiculously elitist behaviour.… further insults awaited

@The Blacksmith Hi Russ It has been sold but not to me! It made hammer $2125. The learning continues…..with a degree of uncertainty sometimes🙂

@Brano please, leave it. Please.

Please, let’s not turn this into another scrap!

I didn’t say they would. I agree but I’m talking about getting started. Ive met collectors who have been at it for years and still can’t tell a good blade from an average one🙂

In retrospect I should have just posted the link……lots of images if you scroll down. Yes I know…..beware ebay!!! https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=kabuto&_sacat=20081&_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313

What follows is simply a different view on how and why to get into this collecting field. It is based on my experience and is purely my opinion. Just some random musings. 1.Before you dive in understand how the market is structured (it’s exactly the same as any other collecting market) Imagine a pyramid, wide at the base, pointed at the top. At the base there are a great many collectors interested in a wide range of swords for many different personal and aspirational reasons. These will usually be the more modestly priced swords but that does NOT MEAN THEY ARE CRAP. As you gradually look higher up the marketplace pyramid you will find the numerical customer base quickly reduces the higher you ascend and as the price of the swords increases. At the top of the pyramid you will find a vastly reduced customer base able (and willing) to spend large sums of money on the rarest of swords. This is pretty obvious stuff but the new collector should now start to think about where they might envisage themselves ending up. What are their aspirations (because they will vary enormously) What are they aiming for? Above all, what is realistic. 2. Ask yourself why are you joining this hobby? What do you want to collect because there is a great variety…..and remember it’s your decision, no-one should attempt to tell you what to do. This is your collection, your hobby. Military stuff? Just blades ….. Old swords, newer swords, modern swords? Complete swords (ie with koshirae that have not been cobbled together or made recently) Just long swords? just short swords? Just something to hang on the wall? How much money have I got that I can expose to risk. Do I want a varied collection or just one sword? Would I rather change my car? 3. Basic knowledge needed (can be gleaned from numerous books) How to spot a fake or replica How are swords actually forged, hardened and polished What flaws and problems in the blade will be encountered. How to recognise them and which are serious 4. Take a look at the marketplace in action…..sword prices in various sectors…auctions, dealers, forums, Japan, …..easily achieved on the internet. Within my target market what might fit within my budget. 5. Anyone around nearby that I can talk to….clubs, shows, dealers, internet forums. How do I network and build contacts? 1-5 above should have caused some forethought and most importantly a reality check and maybe the formulation of some sort of plan together with an understanding of the basics of swords. It need only take a few months not years. OK….. now what? Well a few facts to keep in mind….. It is unwise to buy swords for investment purposes. The higher the price generally the greater the risk. You will not buy an “important sword” for a few thousand but you can certainly buy acceptable quality and interesting examples (and don’t be misled by those that sneer and deride lower valued pieces) If buying from a dealer understand and respect that it is how he makes his living (or perhaps partially) and therefore he will have his profit built in. On very expensive swords that profit could be substantial. Many dealers are highly respectable and experts in their field. Some are not. Beware eBay and all similar auction sites. If a sword is available on the internet from a dealer in Japan it is usually because no one in Japan wants to buy it at that price. (Worth just thinking about that is) Always try to actually handle a sword before you buy it. At some point you might want to quit the hobby or raise or lower your sights. Be prepared to change. You will find out if this rabbit warren really is for you. Ultimately…..spend your money on what makes you happy and try not to make too many mistakes along the way (we all made mistakes, some more than others apparently🙂🙂🙂☹️) It’s a journey and an adventure, have some fun…..remember what you’ve decided and go buy something.

To add another image…..are those rivet heads lurking under the lacquer? Does that suggest a genuine multi-plate construction?

I’ll have to go look that up🙂…..and then try to figure out what is strange. It gets even trickier but at least my basic hunch was justified. again, many thanks

Many thanks Uwe. This is a tricky subject yes?🙂

@uwe Thanks for looking Uwe. Further images……. Just looks too good to be true??

Forgot to say….hachi is iron, shikoro is leather.

Attempting to learn! This is advertised as 100% Edo with nice old maedate. Seller is apparently reliable. Certainly visually impressive in excellent condition but is it Edo? Tehen no kanamono looks “new” Showa? All opinions gratefully received! Many thanks. Colin

Yes, for me, but with regrets (and for a variety of reasons). One door closes…another opens…….🙂

Brian I agree but with genuine respect it also means that “they” don’t get to spread blatant falsehoods ie lies and treat with disrespect and derision anyone who sells or collects what they view as below their lofty standards. I was somewhat surprised that unjustified and offensive comments on dealers went unchallenged. Anyway, I hope your health is improving. All the best.

Things have changed ……inevitably. I come from over 40 years ago. No internet, no computers, no mobile phones, very few books, no contact with Japan….starting from scratch armed with enthusiasm and a modest budget. I experienced the treasure hunts. Building contacts by word of mouth, adverts in papers followed by days spent responding, visiting the local weapons dealer to see if anything had turned up. Phone calls from strangers (some very strange) I’ve bought many swords from sheds, garages, country houses, local auctions (if Peter Yorke hadn’t found out about it) I’ve driven 400 miles to see a newly discovered dealer (Chris Shewen) but having arrived an hour early being told by his wife that he was asleep on the couch and I’d have to wait! Fellow enthusiasts driving down from Scotland because they had heard I was interested in Japanese swords. Can’t remember much about those encounters…they brought this rather potent liquid with them. A bundle of swords arriving in the post….one looked nice…turned out to be a Heian period blade in untouched Efu no Tachi mounts that made a bomb through Sothebys years later. Being brave and going to a Token Society meeting in London …..the less said the better. Going to see Mike Deann London (a dealer) ….did I want o sell them….no….then I really need to charge you for valuations… Virtually no swords in shirasaya. All in original koshirae from gunto to stunning Goto mounted daisho. Some rusty, some good but old school polish …..etc etc etc We learned things the hard way and slowly. That excitement has largely gone and will never return. IMO the hobby has become sterile….we were “sword collectors”, now it seems to be more “blade buyers” dependent more on your budget. Lots of shiny things in shirasaya with modern polish and papers. Ok if that’s your thing…fine. There are those that sneer at us early birds sadly….but they will never ever enjoy what we enjoyed.

Bye Rayhan.

Still no facts. Just more insinuations. And everyone has an option not to buy something. Please ……facts. You do know what a fact is? …..and I am not a dealer. When the last 5 swords are gone that’s it. John, fine by me but I’m not usually one to back down when facing personal attacks and insults. Whether face to face or from a keyboard warrior. I’ll shut up and let people draw whatever conclusion they like. Bye Rayhan….be happy.

Try to stay with it mate…..I am not a dealer, simply selling my collection. In your anger to spout I think you lose track a bit. Check what I said, I didn’t say I sold them “on the cheap” STICK TO WHAT YOU KNOW, NOT WHAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW. TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE. In other words you don’t have the slightest clue about me, what I’ve sold or anything else. You cannot offer a single fact to back up your insults and insinuations. Everything is based on your imagination and very obviously driven by an insatiable ego. You obviously have no idea how or why a market works the way it does. You are making yourself look like a total idiot. Whether you are one or not I cannot say but I could guess.

OK @Rayhan, of all the swords that I have sold please tell me which ones people should not have bought and why. Let’s stick to facts, not plastic plates or assumptions. Let’s not base our answers on the prices I sold them for because that tells us nothing. You obviously know what I’ve sold and who bought them (including many members on this Forum and the UK Token Society) so fire away.

I guess you just don’t like anyone disagreeing with you and so you continue to insult with absolutely no knowledge…..just assumptions. All you display is disrespect for perfectly genuine items collected by enthusiastic collectors who are happy with them for a variety of different reasons. If you don’t value them fine but why be so obnoxious? I must have really got under your skin which is obviously very thin. Sorry about that.

I’m not upset. You and your opinions on what everyone should do are not worth getting upset about. I’d forgotten about it all, maybe you hadn’t? let me add immature to my post above.

Showing yourself for the childish ego driven person that you are. Do you think this post will impress anyone? You just carry on insulting, it says a lot about you.

Bit like East Anglia on a good day.

Thank you Piers. Greatly appreciated. I have asked my wife to remove the cable ties from my wrists just so I can write this. They, and the gag are going back on now🙂