Matsunoki

Nothing, absolutely nothing in this world has a “right price” and Nihonto are no exception. Exactly the same as for a pint of milk or a Ferrari. Depends on the circumstances of the sale, who is selling , where it is being sold, who is buying it, is there local competition or choice for either buyer or seller etc etc Bottom line is - if both parties are happy then it’s as close to a “right price” as you are going to get. Opinions on values are totally subjective unless you own the Nihonto equivalent of a car dealers handbook…..and even then they are expressed as a range of values. Same rules apply….balance of supply/demand, law of diminishing returns etc

The term “Art Sword” crops up often and I guess we all know exactly what that means…..or do we? Would we all agree when looking at any given fine work that it constituted an “Art Sword” Apologies if this has been done to death before but it got me thinking, just what is an “Art Sword” I think it would be interesting to hear one another’s definition or views. For me it prompted some questions…….many of the answers are (possibly) obvious but anyway…… Does it have to actually be made as an Art Sword or is a battle served weapon OK? Does it have to be an old sword…Heian, Kamakura etc or is Shinsakuto OK? Does it have to be a top flight smith? Do Tanto, wakizashi etc qualify? Must it be packed full of every hataraki?…or is a finely made suguha ok? Must we see the finest hada Is suriage a no-no? Is mumei OK? Could a hagire blade still qualify? Must it have high level papers? Would all swords made by a high level smith automatically qualify? Does it have to be an expensive sword? Is there an actual official definition somewhere? Is it easy to actually articulate or do personal preferences and prejudices get in the way? Just some musings while I wait for my knee to improve🙂. Any views?

Please define exactly what an art sword is. I am a retired Meiji art dealer and have come to understand that art means many different things to different people. Definitions vary. Appreciation varies. Opinions vary. Standards vary. Judgements vary. Criteria vary. So, what is an art sword? Be specific.

It’s difficult to stay on topic when a perfectly valid, interesting and helpful topic gets deliberately ruined and sidetracked. The naginata was never described as “art” and for the money it is an attractive piece of history in what looks like excellent condition and with papers which many aspiring collectors would love to own. Alex is right, you’d never find similar in the UK (or elsewhere?) at that price. Not everyone can or wants to own high end swords. Why set out to ruin a thread?

More arrogance……a most unattractive quality of some humans.

Could you make it?

Such opinionated arrogance and disdain ……sad really.

Darn it Piers, I got really excited reading the first three words.

@Brendan campbell…..see you there. Looking forward. I always knew that Kanetomo was a gem🙂

I really miss the fun and excitement of exhibitions so I’ve decided to take a table at the forthcoming Birmingham Arms Fair on 16th June. Please, if any of you do attend then come and say hello, I’d love to meet and put faces to names. I plan to take a cross section of swords from my collection….tanto, wakizashi, katana, Tachi etc - from Koto to Shinsakuto. Many in original koshirae, some in shirasaya. Some quite nice things. I’ll put a card on my table saying Colin/Matsunoki . Wake me up if I’ve dozed off please. Hope to see some of you. Best Colin

I really miss the fun and excitement of the old antique exhibitions that we used to do so I’ve decided to take a table at the forthcoming Birmingham Arms Fair on 16th June. Please, if any of you do attend then come and say hello, I’d love to meet and put faces to names. I plan to take a cross section of swords from my collection….tanto, wakizashi, katana, Tachi etc - from Koto to Shinsakuto. Many in original koshirae, some in shirasaya. Some quite nice things. I’ll put a card on my table saying Colin/Matsunoki . Wake me up if I’ve dozed off please. Hope to see some of you. Best Colin

I can only see one image?

Well, matter of opinion I guess. Compare it to some modern “art” …..a few daubs of paint that makes millions, or a vase of sunflowers on a bit of canvas etc and it looks cheap given that it is amongst the very finest metalwork ever produced by anyone anytime. Personally I think the best Meiji work has been and still is vastly undervalued (together with cloisonne enamels) but of course the market always decides. Demand in Japan is growing strongly as they realise just how good the top flight output actually was. Being largely made for the West, most of it left Japan at the time it was produced but now, like good Chinese work, it’s finding its way back. I used to sell a lot to a Japanese dealer…..I’d like it all back now😳

Edit…wrote this before reading Michael’s comments above. Must pay more attention! There is a lot of focus on importing and exporting swords but the volumes involved will be massively exceeded by the volume of swords being sent within the UK. Dealers, Auctioneers, Collectors etc Ive just has a very quick look at what I think are the latest “prohibited items” definitions used by - The Post Office Parcelforce Royal Mail ……remember these all operate as separate companies and with their own definitions. Unsurprisingly they all appear to be different and use different criteria and wordings. I even found two different Parcelforce definitions on their own website. Frankly it looks totally chaotic and uncoordinated….surprise surprise. The chances of all the relevant employees of these separate companies understanding the guidelines is zero. The chances of getting clarification from them or the Government is zero. It’s going to be crap shoot…… MASSIVELY compounded when UK Border Force get involved. I do wonder if (within the UK) either the PO or Parcelforce intend to X-ray/check what is actually inside packages? Anyone else had a look at the different definitions? Did you figure it out?

Adam, what is your definition of a daisho?

Cubism didn’t kick off until around 1910 +- a year or two. I doubt it could have spread to and influenced any of the Japanese arts that quickly especially the rather traditional tsuba schools and makers. Personally I’ve never seen such influence. The main European artistic shift that found its way into Japan was Art Deco although the more “realistic” Western painting perspectives did creep in a bit earlier.

I’m going to put all of my swords, tsuba etc into an auction before I depart (provided it’s not sudden and unexpected) just to see how much money I’ve managed to lose.

When a sword is shortened its geometry is often changed, sometimes very substantially…..the sori, haba, niku, kasane etc will all be different. A new habaki would usually be required. It would then be unlikely to fit the old saya unless the saya was also shortened and considerably re-worked. A 3” difference between blade and saya is not that unusual

Totally wrong. Thousands of gunto are oil quenched and have very clear hamon, but no nie. Loads of info on the forum in the military section.

Josh, you’ve now already had the learning experience, you probably don’t need a reminder so if you could exchange the sword that’s what I would do…..provided you don’t jump out of the frying pan into the fire. Speaking from experience, getting rid of mistakes is very cathartic! I’d try speaking to the seller with fingers crossed.

Vaguely, what part of England are you?

I’ve dealt with John, he’s fine and uses Bill Tagg as a consultant. Have you got his usual full description? But, do you want a shortened old sword or would you prefer a normal shingunto? Make sure you buy what you really want rather than buy what happens to be in front of you.

Erm doh🤪I’ve booked my trip to the optician

I live in England also but with patience and contacts there are many ww2 swords available. Try a WTB post but until you are confident I’d avoid eBay and buy from someone you can trust. And handle the swords first.

One on Kabutogane and a different one on fuchi…. Or have I gone nuts (again😊)