Toryu2020

We really need a Swords and Swordsmen thread on this board, There are many ways to cut with the Japanese sword - how you cut will depend often on the school you practice but also on the circumstances. Most will cut with the left hand, a large slicing stroke as has been mentioned. There is a "skipping" stroke, a pushing stroke, a pulling stroke, a "snapping" cut where the right hand pushes and the left hand pulls in a quick close snapping motion tight to the body. There is also chopping with the right hand or with both hands close together on the tsuka. for any who have tried cutting real targets you will understand that the sword cuts best when the focus is in the mono-uchi. Chopping with the right hand puts all that power in the area of the koshi (habaki-moto) - might kill a naked man but a poor way to cut a moving target that is even lightly armed. Most often tsuka fail for two reasons; long tsuka/short nakago or very bad cutting form. Chopping is bad form and nearly every school you encounter will train it out of you. I use two mekugi in my training sword for added safety, in the tremendous explosions, rattle and roar one encounters crawling across a modern battle I'd want two mekugi in my tsuka as well. However I think the failures would be more from poor cutting, applied to heavy targets (rifles, helmets) by poorly trained swordsmen, and maybe poor materials, a tough combination in a tough environment. mho -t

David - I dont think there was a big market for boku-to tsuba combos. I think it more likely the artist leaves what would be the seppa-dai blank and anyone who chose to utilize the design could give it whatever treatment was needed. There is quite the variety here - it is easy to see from a book like this many a design could be copied, right down to the signature! -t

i would suggest Sumo (as a new year festivity) for the theme... -t

Has to be the coolest tsuba I have seen in a long time. Thank you for pointing it out, -t

Sad! Even then Japanese school-kids had to wear shorts in the winter!! -t

Jeremy - According to Japanese Imported Arms of the Meiji Period the Hon stamp is an early acceptance stamp that was used in what became the Tokyo Arsenal. The Shin or "Ni" (新) stands for either Niigata, Niihari or Niikawa, the prefecture where it would have been registered. The latter two, Niihari and Niikawa, were later consolidated into other areas so no longer exist as Prefectures, I think both of these support the early Meiji date. A very neat find. -t

Gentlemen - With one thousand years of history comes one thousand different styles of wearing and using a sword. For some schools the draw involves use of the hips and waist, in others very long swords can be drawn using just the left and right hands and the judicious use of "timing." Swords were worn on the back and can be drawn over the shoulder or under if you know what you are doing. To say that it wasn't done or there is only one way is a mistake. For every application there was usually more than one devised to defeat it, many of these "tricks" fell by the wayside and today what we see are the schools and techniques proven by battle and by their (technical/teaching) logic. Gyaku menuki are indeed a feature of Yagyu koshirae but like many of the variations we see a matter of taste and used by a number of practitioners. Myself included, -t We really need a Swords and Swordsmen section on this forum...

Now that I think about it hon ay be a later mark meaning "real" or true working firearm - I will just have to see where I put that book! -t

三千八十九 本　明十二　　新 How about number 3819 - "Hon" would be the arsenal Mei12 maybe Meiji 12(1879) and Shin "New" there is a book out there from Banzai press that may contain the answers... -t

Etchu Tametsugu

Thanks Piers I wasnt responding to Jacques specifically, I should be curious to see details of your bokuto - the one I posted is dead straight - 136cm long - the tsuba is over 10cm in diameter - the handle is quite robust while the blade tapers to a very small point - more for iai practice than paired kata I am thinking... -t

Heres one with a huge tsuba - supposedly Oishi Shinkage-ryu - I am curious if anyone here has ideas to support or debunk that theory? Any help appreciated, -t

Eric I am very interested in your photo, I am currently researching a bokuto that looks very much the same as the straight swords on the top of the rack. The large tsuba suggests Ono-ha Itto-ryu would you know if these are associated with any particular ryuha? or would you know which part of Japan they were found in? any help appreciated, -t

A reputable dealer, online and off. -t

Tachi-uo?

Dave R has the right idea - we need to collect more images, more examples and I think we are well on the way. Masashige san - the term Yokohama-mono comes to mind, flashy cheap objects sold to foreigners. Swords were certainly part of this and we are told that after the haito rei and Seinan no Ran, things Japanese were discarded and things western were adopted wholesale often without real understanding of their use and meaning. I will have to dig a bit to find references to cite, I have heard this so often repeated that I cannot recall where I first encountered it. I have a strong memory of Albert Yamanaka describing cartloads or barrels of swords he saw for sale or that he himself helped schlep. I believe this is in his newsletters. John Yumoto may also have mentioned something like this. Another interesting question to come out of this discussion, I shall have to dig around to see if I can indeed come up with quotes to support my contention. -t

All - The problem with these being "arsenal" pieces for me is the newness of them. When they do show age, I can easily believe they are 100 years old but not 300. I find it hard to imagine a han of any size with the resources to maintain a large stash of swords but too cheap to get decent same, tsukaito and tsuka for their swords. Rather I think Chris C is on to something - indeed after the restoration we hear tales of cart loads of swords being sold to foreigners on the docks of Yokohama. Were I an enterprising sword dealer with boxes of rusty, bent and badly suriage'd swords, sitting next to boxes of old tsuba and saya, I might be tempted to slap all the pieces together to resemble swords and sell them off as "rebellion" swords. The question remains, why have these types not been cataloged in any Japanese reference? Has any of the many distinguished members here ever seen one of these in Japan? I think this is a perfect area of study for the western student - I think in Europe and America we can see more of the type and if we can post and catalog the images here we might get at the OP's question of what are the variations, similarities and differences. What besides the seeming slapdash nature of these suggests Kyushu, Satsuma or the Seinan Senso? -t

Ian et al - I can agree that these look very much like the swords illustrated, however has anyone seen examples that show the age that would accrue on something made in the Muromachi jidai? Why have the National museum, Sasama and every other source completely ignored these if they were in fact part of the kit of a Sengoku soldier? another schlub hoping to solve the mystery... -t

Robert - Takayama Honten is hands down the best source for books on Budo - they naturally get the odd sword volume on occasion some real gems pop up here. In the same building there is a seller of "Japanese books" that might also have what you are looking for. At the other end of Yasukuni dori near the beginning of the many bookshops there is Ôyashobô which specializes in nothing but the kind of books you are after, they rarely have sword stuff but on occasion I have struck gold there as well. The place you really need to go is Isshindô, they have every book on swords and fittings ever published. For every book you see on the shelf they have four copies in their kura! I dont know how many times I would be in a book shop miles away from Tokyo only to be told "no sword books, Isshindô-san was just here"... Envy you the adventure, -t

Junichi - Good eye there man, and a great set of examples for comparison. Would be interesting to see close ups of the nanako to see how they compare. It is my understanding that shakudo gets its color from the amount of gold versus copper and then a pickling. What I think we are seeing is that all are made of shakudo, however only the mountain and the backs have been "pickled." The silver or shibuichi is applied but I would be surprised to find the mountain was not part of the solid body of the piece. Takes some skill to do this, a tribute to the artists... -t

I think we are confusing Shinto with Shin-shinto if we are talking about modern steels, Western imported steels were a fad at the beginning of the Edo period, and while some argue that the low carbon content made them ideal for heavily carved tsuba the steel was not very good for sword-making. Yasutsugu seems to have used it sparingly in his swords as a kind of novelty, it was never the bulk of the material used to make up a sword. Rather than "new" methods of sword-maing Masahide was arguing for a return to the older methods and with more local flavor. Hence we see many of his students reviving long dormant schools upon returning to their homelands; Dotanuki and Enju to name two. Fukko, a return to the righteous ways of the past, was a popular idea at the time in politics. In the art of sword-making Masahide was arguing for the same thing, in the highly literate Japanese society of the times his ideas would have spread where perhaps even his book and his students did not reach. The country was ripe for revolutions. As for why these dates? Fukunaga gives 1772 to 1912 as the dates for the Shinshinto period, because it was in Taisho 3 nen that Hon'Ami Koson first made the distinction between the Shinto and Shinshinto eras in a publication. The argument was that it was Masahide's call to return to the sword-making of the past that caused the changes and so it should start roughly from the time he began making swords. An old timeline published by the NBTHK some 40 years ago gives Kyoho 3 (1803) as the date when Masahide made his clarion call... -t

I agree Dave but I can also see that they do not want to have a bunch of books bought in, there are maybe several ways they could have split these up; by subject, by author, by era. If youre not careful making up the lots you get stuck with a lot of modern books and not so rare stuff. Also it would take a whole weekend to auction them all in lots of four or five. Since this was the private library of a gentlemen, I think they are hoping some other gentlemen will want to keep it whole for himself. I note that the many reference works on Chinese art that were in this library are not on offer - I suppose we can expect to see those in some future auction... -t

We talk a lot about the importance of books and research on this forum, I would like to point out that there is a tremendous library of books being auctioned here as well. The bulk of these were the personal library of John Yumoto, collected over 50 years study. There are some awesome books here with nearly every important work represented. Will be interesting to see if the book buyers come out... -t

Thats pretty special Grey - nice find! -t