george trotter

Hi John C..Just thought you and Bruce might be interested in a little more marking detail on that RJT 5/1944 Kanehide I posted mei pics of just above. Here is a pic of its habaki...stamped '52 and also '1 with kanji' (Seki? not sure). The '52' matches with the blue paint marking on the tang which says 'Ku 52'. When he made this sword he was working at the "Seki Kabushiki Kaisha' which he joined on Sho 16 year 2 mo 2 day so these marks must be related to their production system markings (Dai Nihon Token Shoko Meikan Mar 1942) (from Hist. of Nakata Kanehide, Swordsmith' from sanmei.com). Not sure if this is of interest bur it does show the tang and fittings are numbered together. Regards...

Hi John, Here are the mei and date of my Kanehide. Also, here down below is the original pic from 2012 - I show you as some of the blue paint marking on mei side is now not easily visible. Regards...

Yes, I have three Type 98 mounted gendaito with mon. All have 8 seppa, one has a cut through guards, two have aluminium saya. One mon is picked off before surrender. One mon is cut off before surrender (silver mon 'stub' is still in hole). One still has its mon. So, in my case, 2 out of 3 mon were removed.

I had a look through the books on this and while I found the smith as signed on the tang there is no new info or any mention of him being RJT. Gendai Toko Kinko Shokukata Soran by Ono 1977 p.70. He was born Yamagata, Sakata, Meiji 38, studied under 1st Gen. Fujita Akiyoshi. He started in swords 1n 1942 and restarted in swords in 1955

For decades I have Interpreted the gendai era as follows... Gendaito 1876-1945 - traditionally made as weapons. Shinsakuto 1953-present - traditionally made as ART.

Hi Mal, I agree.

Yes Bruce, be interesting to know the answer...

I'm no expert on the cut-off date of the Type 94 (if there is one - maybe both types were produced in conjunction?), so I ask...as well as the details of the catch button location and the tsuba thickness etc, wouldn't the date on the tang, if dated after the introduction of the Type 98 in 1938, also be an indicator that the sword was a Type 94 or Type 98? Just wondering...

I'm 77 next month, and started collecting in 1973. I stopped in 1981 and sold my collection as I had joined the West Australian Museum and did not feel I should collect. I started collecting again in 2008 when I left the museum - but this time only gendaito 1876 - 1945. I first became interested in Japan / Japanese swords as one uncle had spent 4 years 1945-1949 in the Occupation of Japan (in Hiroshima) and another uncle had brought back a sword from a surrender his Australian Army unit took in New Guinea (it is a gendaito of good quality but mumei - Type 98 mounts).. i was therefore always interested in Japan and studied Japanese history and language at Uni...and here I am, on a Japan oriented site - love it.

Wow...what interesting discussions...so glad we have NMB to express them on. All the best to all. Regards...

Rick, what Baby Joe forgot to add to his translation is what it actually says in English... It means...'In the province of Bizen, in the village of Osafune, (the swordsmith) Sukesada made (this)'. Hope this helps...

Don't forget the RJT and private-made gendaito of the Showa era 1926-1945. These are the last in the 1000 year history of traditionally made nihonto to be made specifically for use on the battlefield. That's why I collect them...they are the most relevant to my parents generation and to my own. Regards...

EDIT TO CORRECT MY ERROR OF SAYING THAT BOTH OF MY MUNETOSHI SWORD TANGS WERE STAMPED WITH THE MATSU STANP...ONLY THE RJT STAMPED 1943 DATED TANG HAS THE MATSU STAMP .... sorry. for the error.....old guy's brain freeze Here is the original post with correction: Hmmm...this is a hard one to confirm in any secure way. All I can say is that in the case of my two Yamagami Munetoshi blades ...the Sep 1941 pre RJT blade is matsu 308 while the May 1943 RJT blade is matsu 1080. This seems to say that the mounting/polishing shop (if this is their mark) is still the one the Yamagamis used both before? and after the RJT scheme started. I presume the other smiths mentioned lived close enough to use this same shop (or it had branches?). I think we think that the swords made by the RJT smiths were polished/mounted in their local areas and were then sent to Army premises in the capital cities for further RJT inspection and to receive the star stamp if they passed. As there was no reason for the Yamagamis to get Army approval for their swords prior to when the RJT control standards were introduced, it seems to confirm that the Matsu stamp/number was a service shop they used prior to RJT and also continued to use post RJT starting...so did other smiths. BUT what we don't know yet is where the Matsu shop was...my gut feeling is somewhere 'local' to the Yamagami brothers in Niigata prefecture. Be good to know...I will go through the books again...I'll let you know if I find any Matsu shop in Niigata or nearby (I know you have had a search Trystan, but two sets of eyes might improve our chances...) regards,

Interesting Bruce...now looks like an 'area' stamp rather than just the Yamagami brothers of Niigata......maybe the mark of the polishers or mounting shop that served the smiths of this area? Regards...

Great news...It is so long since I read any of those publications I can't remember any specific topic...maybe (I doubt it - but I can hope) there may be one or two on WWII era gendaito? Well done all...much appreciated.

Hi Steve, yes, an interesting sword by a WWII Osaka smith. I still have my Okishiba Yoshisada sword and still like it... Interesting that his work has variations in the tang tip shape and yasuri kesho etc... I have seen oshigata of both types dating from c.1941, so he was doing it (as his standard practice) when our swords were made. So, nice find Steve...have fun researching, Look forward to whatever extra info you find out about him. Regards...

Hi Brian...this is the date SHOHEI 6 year, 6 month, 1st day. 1st of June 1351 Cheers, Geo.

The name Kuroda means Blackfield....I remember a friend in 1980 who lived in Kyoto whose landlord was Mrs Kuroda...whenever her name was mentioned everyone looked down and you could tell that Mrs Kuroda was a 'tough' landlady...no nonsense. Those were the days...

Duh...stupid me - misread the date. Sorry, I was off track.

Hi Bruce, I have a gendaito in Rinji Seishiki mounts (two buttons). It is by a (later RJT) smith named Tsukamoto Masakazu of Fukushima. It is dated April 1942 and has a number 1129 stamped on the tang tip like this one. I think they are made under similar circumstances in that: both have no star (both made before late 1942 when the RJT blades start to appear) Both have a tang number (probably / certainly a mounting / polishing shop number) Judging from my example, I think this blade shown is probably a gendaito as well, made by a smith who later became RJT. Hope this helps...

Just saw this...sorry to Brian...I know how he feels. About filling the needs of NMB, I agree, the proposed moderators and the dividing up of the sections and tasks seems the best solution. I my case, thank you for the confidence shown to me . I am here to help contribute to gendaito/gunto matters if needed but must say that I am afraid I am about past my 'use-by' date as a moderator . I am definitely no longer on top of any technological needs for being useful on this board, I think I am really just here for giving advice and assisting as I always have as a contributing member. Thanks guys, but I can't moderate.......I'm sure you will fill the gaps as necessary as there is plenty of talent among you all.

Thanks Dee and Sam. I can usually read the rank and the name, but this one was 'different'...so thanks. Appreciated. Regards...

Hi all, sorry to be a pain, but can someone read this for me...I can't be sure ... Thanks...

I agree with Dee Simon...I have seen a couple of returns in the past and, being familiar with Japanese culture, I can tell you from the body language that no-one among the Japanese in the room wanted to be there or wanted a gaijin there 'celebrating' Japanese WWII history. Believe me. Geo.

You can always count on us 'originals' Stephen...we have got your back.