Bruce Pennington

My puzzlement as well - Really? That valuable an item on ebay???

Well the good news is that it’s all legit WWII stuff. Oddly sometimes that matters less with officer gunto than it does with NCO gunto (I mean original vs price-together).

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Kai-island sword. Better close-ups of blade tip might help.

Marc, This blade has 2 holes because it was likely made to go into "Type 3" or Rinji Seishiki fittings which used a screw in the hole nearest the tsuba and a mekugi in the hole at the end. But this was cut off to fit into standard Type 98 fittings. Mark, Would it be possible to get a picture of the end of the nakago? Does the cut look fresh (post-war) or is it aged? I have 2 Mantetsu in the files with 2 mekugi ana, yet fitted in Type 98 fittings. The ends weren't cut like this one, so the fittings were obviously made to fit the longer nakago. But I mention them as examples that the mix of blade and 98 fittings was done during the war. Depending upon whether we can get evidence from the cut end, this may have been a field re-fit or it could have been done post-war. May come down to one of those "who knows?" cases.

Ha! I suspected as much. Trust me, the collecting side of the hobby is WAY more fun! I'm about to give up on my buying/selling effort.

Mark, That was one, tiny, hard to find Seki stamp, for sure! I couldn't keep my eyes off that "G" above it! That's a really nice piece, overall, with the leather cover in good shape. Pricing is tough to call, as the market is almost completely stopped with the COVID thing going on. WWII officer gunto NORMALLY are in the range of $900-1,400. I personally feel yours is worth $1,000-1,200. But good luck getting a buyer.

After comparing the 2, the side with, what I thought was different script - they simply flipped 2 lines. One is the date you mentioned Showa 15 (same on both), and the other is something else, but the same "something" on both blades. He's added 2 "flower" stamps to your example too. Must but a highly coveted "upgrade" to the 1941 model! Ha! Even this example, a waki, from Turner's page (http://jssus.org/nkp/fake_japanese_swords.html)

This particular faker-maker uses the exact same pattern. Here is another one with the same design and number. The script on the other sides seems to differ though.

Stamps Doc 5.1 - a couple more hotstamps added; some editorial cleaning; slight re-arrangment of some pictures. No major changes, but enough for an update (and maybe I just need something to do since there's not much going on!!!) Stamp 5.1.pdf

I expect you should be able to find a gunto with an older, gendai blade in it for that price. The expensive ones you are seeing are likely from someone famous, or the owner has paid over $2,000 for a polish. It's not something I look for, so somebody who collects nihonto will have to help you with where and how to find one like that, but it is definitely possible. The only one I have is in kai-gunto (navy) fittings, so it cost me $2,400. Kaigunto sell for more than army gunto; plus this had sharkskin saya and a family mon. So I paid extra. The blade is mumei and likely from the Muromachi (late Koto) period. Not much to look at, but like you, I just love holding a sword that was being made when Columbus was sailing the ocean blue! Pretty amazing.

Rich , Pics of the blade, as clear and close as possible, help the guys make a judgement about how it’s made.

The short answer is - No there is no "bluebook" sort of pricing list for WWII gunto. And you're asking at a weird time. The COVID thing has almost completely shut down the market. Some guys are still buying, but even when they do, the swords are either held up in shipping for extended periods or refused by air-carriers and returned. Having said that, officer gunto tend to run $900-1,400 in good condition (less if messed up); and NCO Type95s run $700-1,400 for the standard issue (much more for copper-handle and very late war). So, under usual circumstances you wouldn't be able to get both for $1,500. More like $2,000 for both, for average condition.

JP is correct. There is a longer thread about these, but I cannot find it.

It also semi-dates your blade, as all known examples of the stamp were used between late 1940 to early 1942 - so most likely 1941.

I recently wrote to Rock Island Auctions to let them know a post-war Toyokawa souvenir gunto they were selling was not a IJA military sword. Their response: "Good Afternoon Mr. Pennington, Thank you so much for reaching out to us here at Rock Island Auction Company. Our describer team has reviewed your email and have provided me with the following response. Basic research does indicate that Toyokawa continued making non-traditional swords in the occupation era chiefly for consumption by the U.S. post exchange system. This is the "pattern" of the sword - it is not listed original. It is a Shin Gunto Pattern Japanese Sword. If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to reach back out. Sincerely, Alexandria NM. Andrews Customer Service Representative | Rock Island Auction Company | website: www.rockislandauction.com phone: 800-238-8022 | fax: 309-797-1655 | email: Aandrews@rockislandauction.com 7819 42nd Street West, Rock Island, IL 61201" Incredible. So as long as they put "Pattern" or "Style" in the title, they think it's Ok to call it anything they want to to mislead the unsuspecting buyer. As always "Buyer Beware".

That’s a good point JP. Just got this back from eBay’s MAPCARGO: “Hi Bruce, DHL can not deliver blades over 5 inch , so this sword is classified as dangerous good If you would like to ship other blades over 5 inch again, please choose different service not eISD Best regards Niko Nikolov eISD”

Great discovery Chris! Just curious about the number - was it scratched onto the kojiri?

Thanks guys. This time, they've used "MAPCARGO", 2501 Redondo Beach, CA. I got the same response from the buyer. He's a collector and says he's had a dozen swords shipped to him, some from the USA, in the past year with not trouble. Maybe it's just the COVID backlog and whatever carrier they tried to use is just maxed out. I've given him the choice to wait for it to return to me, and I'll pay to ship it myself, or he can have a refund.

Well, I just got this from Ebay International Shipping: "Our shipping partners have notified us that the package cannot be delivered due to either the temporary suspension of service or custom prohibited regulations in the destination country. Please note that the item is being returned to you and, if it is not listed below, we will add tracking for the return shipment to the eBay transaction once it is available. We are sorry this has happened, and we want to make sure you are taken care of. You will be refunded the cost of the eBay international shipping label on your next invoice and will not be charged for the return shipping." I bought the shipping lable from ebay, to be shipped through USPS. But it turns out that ebay has their own international contract with someone in Redondo beach, who has obviously refused this sword. I sold it to a guy in Montreal, through ebay. Now they're sending it back to me! Last time I will use their shipping labels for international. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

We need to combine the two threads. If we had an Admin that loved us, he'd do that for us! *XOXO*

John, That's the letter, alright! It says these were made "after the war". I cannot speak to the original G.I.s facts or story, but all the evidence we have, factual evidence, is that these were made as souvenirs after the war. Here's another document provided by a member with one of these, and the PX document came with the sword. Dated 1950. If such a story were to be corroborated somehow, it would really shake things up on this topic. Now, we do know, for those of us who know some marines, that they can be capable to stretching a yarn on unsuspecting folks sometimes.

Another give-away - the kissaki are usually almost squared off on these.

The date "Showa 18th Year", translates to 1943. Brian touched on the "machine made" term, but to give a little more detail, all blades made during WWII were made by people. There was quite a shortage of blades throughout the war and to ramp up production (over 2 million were made by war's end) they started using hydraulic hammers and other machines to aid in the manufacture. The term is mostly used to describe "non-traditionally made" blades, which could have meant various things. I'm attaching a list of the 9 ways blades were made during the war. Any variation from the traditional way would have required a stamp on the blade. I'll also attach the lastest "Stamps Document" which goes into depth on the history of the many stamps used during the war. Stamp 5.1.pdf

John, You did a nice job restoring that piece, congrats! Looks like you did some reading on the history of these, possibly at the NMB thread "NLF Gunto Discussion" - http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/22400-nlf-gunto-discussion/?hl=%2Bgunto+%2Bdiscussion You will find, though, that we are 99% sure these were made post-war by Toyokawa for the US Army PX. There is a letter on that thread where a contractor was complaining to the US Army about delays on his production order of the 8,000 blades. I believe the mix of Army & Navy parts was intentional to get around prohibitions on making and selling war weapons. This arrangement is WAY out of military specs and therefore would not have been used as a weapon of war and could be classified as a "souvenir" (which is how the item was called on the other document, signed by the Asst Commander of the PX, on that thread). You didn't show a picture of the name. If it is a 2-kanji name struck on the nakago, it very well is the smith. Some of these do come signed by the smith. Many are not signed. Edit: It would be very important to learn if the original Marine who got this, returned to the US before war's end, or was still in the Pacific at the end of the war. Maybe this guy fought on Guadalcanal, but was still in the theatre at the end of the war and returned home with the souvenir. Any way to confirm that?

Erwin, That is a GORGEOUS example! I see even the tsuba is painted black. Would you be comfortable doing something for me? If you carefully remove the screw and remove the saya throat, there is a tab on the throat. Bubba-jobs usually don't remove the throat when they paint and the tab will have the original color. I'm attaching a picture of mine and you can see there is no other green paint there, so I believe mine is original too. It is also a Nagoya product. The greenish tint is just bad photography and oxidation