TheGermanBastard

120 USD will buy you a crap Tsuba on most occassions - and this tsuba is NO crap as even a well known idiot like me can see at first glance. If anybody does have more tsuba of that type at 120 bucks I'd be happy to sell my stocks and buy them in the hundreds .. you should sit down, clean it with some ivory ... if you decide to sell it, you may want to conseign it with some good dealer like for exameple Andy Quirt of nihonto.us whose site has allready been mentioned in this topic. Andy is one of the best places to buy quality Tosugu and always honest in his dealings. The sword is solid but probably Muromachi around 1500 - 1550 ... Suriage. Blades signed Bishu are often inferior to the ones signed Bizen ... but this has of course to be evaluated on a case by case basios. The nicks are none fatal but deep enough to reduce the width to a significant degree. Also there is one Ware. I'm not sure if I would get it polished. Probably not. Atleast I would want to keep a tight budget on it and make sure not to put a Mukansa priced polish on it. The Chohji Hamon will probably look nice.

That dude got into a bad brawl! Unfortuntely not a match ... The Menuki are solid and aside from probabky being Gimei the blade is otherwise solid, too for what it is. The whole package is worth the price you paid I would want to think. Everything else is up to your personal oppinion / taste. Personally I would want to the think that the Menuki are the nices part on their own and the Tsuba is the worst. That auction has had a lot of akward pieces. A huge load of blades in tourist mountds. There was one Tanto that looked like it could have been a Rai school blade but all the temper was probably lost.

You should get the NTHK papers

Menuki look nice. Do the F/K Kashira match? Not a bad deal at the price you paid!

Because a message board is about posting?

Hello

The better the quality of the polish, the better a blade performs at Shinsa. That is a no brainer.

And you will need a Tsunagi for the old Koshirae made. Make sure it has a removeabke wood Habaki made. AOI Art can help you find a matching Kozuka. When it has been added you can submitt the Koshirae for Shinsa.

Makre sure to get a quality Shirasaya and Habaki done. It is best to have a gold foil Habaki made.

You might wish to get the blade re-polished by a highly rated polisher. This could reveal the full quality of the sword for your appreciation and possibly grant better Shinsa results.

If I were the topic starter I would also submitt it to both NTHK Shinsas and ask Tanobe Sensei for Sayagaki. Thsi will offer the maximum of infoirmationa nd thus appreciation of what might be an important sword.

Or send it to the NTHK who will give you more information. You may wish to send it to both NTHK branches for a maxium of information available and get Sayagaki from Tanobe Sensei.

You should send the sword for Shinsa.

No. It could mean that this is a very special and important sword.

Well, summed up Jussi. That is what I tried to explain to the buyer but failed ...

Yes, that was me ... and yes, it was more than I could take - in terms of spirits. I am more the down to earth type. As far as the price goes I don't know as none was disclosed. So may the good spirits always be with you in your ventures and all the best

Hello Michael, thank you for the provided data. As I said before it is just very hard for a Waki in general and especially Muromachi and later to go Juyo - and we are talking about a Wakizashi here. We must understand that the number of Wkizashi increased tremendously during Shinto Periode. I better refrain from making anymore remakrs about the two Koshiraes shown in this topic and their potential "need" for papers. The question I ask is, if one is NOT after economic appreciation, then what is the purpose of upgrading a blade from Hozon to TBH? And when look at the economic appreciation, does it make sense on an avergae blade?? That is why I offered the question to think about the benefit of this quest given an average blade ... I think the topic starter seems to admire wishfull thinking. I do wish him the very best and that all his wishes may come true.

There is good Tsukaito on that Koshirae

Ray, my first comment is to re-read my posting and again come down to earth from Utopia or wherever you.. I said that even Sinkai and Kotetsu Wakizashis are NO sure bets on Juyo whilebeing two of the most highly regarded Shinto periode smiths. Tell me the ratio of TBH versus Juyo ranked blades for these smithes. The amount of TBH ranked blades will greatly outnumber the Juyo Wakizashis ... why? Because is just very rare for a Shinto periode Wakizashi to go Juyo WHILE we have probably larger numbers of Wakizasho by these smith then Daito. But that was NOT my question. I repeat my question to your for the 3rd time and await your reply: You further emphasized that there were Juyo level Wakizashis. I asked which compareabel Shinto Juyo Wakizashi of that rank (= Masanaga 3rd) there is? Hm?

> . I have very similar Koshirae that is Hozon rated Then the paper is maybe worth more than the Koshirae ... it makes absolutely no sense to submitt such a kind of Koshirae for papers. It is like getting a paper for your 30 year old Golf saying this is an old Golf. Look at the Fuchi / Kashira of the Koshirae in question. Onne of the poorer mass produced things of tourist quality. > No one mentioned Juyo it was just a remark that no one knows what will happen. Well , you said: " This Waki in question in my heart o hearts I feel is a good candidate, I give it a thumbs up for a try on TH. In 200 years from now if in similar condition will it maybe pass Juyo, who knows." I say, chances of this happening is 0.1% and I have reasoning why not. Or there will be hundred thousands of Juyo blades in 200 years. You further emphasized that there were Juyo level Wkizashi. I asked which comparabel Shinto Juyo Wakizashi of that rank there is. But no reply. So I put an end to this debate on my end. Believers need to believe.

Hello, how many Shinto Wakizashi by a smith of that rating level do exist? Without looking it up here is my here's my blant bet: Is close to ZERO Even Kotetsu or Shinkei Wakizashi are not a safe call on Juyo. Here is my next bet: in 200 years there will be either 0 or 100.000 Juyo blades as they all do match the qualiyt of the above blade / criteria. I bet again on ZERO. The original topic starter thinks what he likes to think. I don't blame that. It is just human. We like to accept the information that is favorable and we reject the one that isn't. This sword IS NOOOOOOOOOOO 2.5. It has not the FAINTEST chance of getting Juyo even if the posters grows a biblic 200 years old ... okay, to be serious the chances are ~0.1% ... putting it to 0.0% would be poor empiric measuring. Next thing someone tells him he should get the dealer set up Koshirae papered which would be a total waste of money. Regarding Masamune and Kiyomara: Ask some Japanese dealers what blades they like best because as they can put up the hightes price tag on them. Evem a bad Masamune would fetch a good price. It is legends that sell. Hence also Muramasa and some more will do great. I do not make a harsh statement. I make a realistic statement. You buy online from a reputable source and you are safe or you buy from a random soure and you take the risk and possible gain. You shou should always buy based on knowledge. If the other party wants to defraud you they will do anyway. And finally this sword has been sold as unpapared 300.000+ Yen blade on AOI ART with a cheap setup Koshirae - and some people now evaluate its chances at Juyo Shinsa both in these days and 200 years in the future. Come down to earth. That is Utopia.

Hello Barry, well said. Let's not forget that Enjyu is for a Daito is likely in the 1 Million + Yen range so the cost of adding a TBH paper is smaller in relation then when considerinf a 300.000 + Yen blade. Best regards

Hello Rayhan, first of all I said that I consider this blades to be likely to received TBH and to be a good, solid blade. BUT I offered the question wheter it makes sense to get TBH for this blade. Everybody is to have his own oppinion on this. I would vote against it since I do not think it is an economically wise decision. What other purpose whoever should the paper serve than an economic poibnt of sales argument? If it is just for enjoying the blade you do not need any paper at all. If you need to confirm it is healthy and the signature is legit then Hozon or a NTHK Kanteisho is all it takes. As far as the signature goes I see no reason to question it. However I do not agree to you in some other aspects. A good sword will not necessarily hold its value. An excellent sword more likely does. Masamune and Kiyomara are most probably the two highest selling smithes and will likely always be. But talk again to some guys who bought some pretty good Juyo class blades in th 40 - 50k range back when the Japanese market was not open to Westeners like it is these days and the very same swords would now be 25k - 30k. so did these way above average swords hold their value? No they did not. There are always ups and downs in the Antiques / Art market. While here again I have to clearly say that an average Japanese sword is not to be confused with the concept of ART. It is more of an antique than a piece of Art. This may satisfy you. I am a sociologist and having a hard time predicting what is likely going to happen tomorrow. If you enjoy predicting what might happen in 200 years then that's fine. I am more the person who likes to consider what is today and thinks hard what might be tomorrow. What happens after I pass I don't care but for enviormental issues. Hence I am a greenpeace member and not one of the NBTHK. Today I see hardly any Juyo token level Wakizashi. Especially not from Muromachi periode or later. Today I think that an average sword is just hard to sell as there are so many average blades available - otherwise it would not be called average. Aside from that, and it is just my personal oppinion, I can not follow up on your advice to get literally thousands of HD images of a blade and cycle the images through Photoshop. If somebody is too gunshy and can't stand the heat in the kitchen then it is just not the right place for him. If a seller wants to disguise a flaw there is quite simple mean to beat Photoshopo filters: Use them. So in the end it all depends on trust and honesty. Therefore a Kanteisho can help clsoe the distance gap in online sales and probably has more demand therefore these days. Again core device is not trying to power up things through papers where you just burn your money.

@ Rayhan: You wrote: > if you have a good papered sword it hold value I agree to this but we must then define what is a good sword and what is a good papered sword. The sword in this very post is in my humble oppion is a good but and an average sword at the same time. It is a solid and enjoyable blade (given there is no issue with dropping Hamon as I had originally considered due to the akward lackluster drawing). There are so many good swords out there that may not be a by a famous smith but that are just quality pieces. Then due to this great amount of blades in this kind of quality rooster it makes them also average blades. Blades that are in great numbers. ... and that is what arouses a problem in terms of value. if you type in Japanese sword on google or eBay you will be flooded with blades in the average range. Which one to buy then? Well, I'd say theone you like and YOU are fine. But if its gets to re-selling you will need someone who likes this sword just as much or you can only make it more attractive by lowering the price tag. This sword having TBH will make it a bigger investment but at the same time the quality of the blade does not improve. I doubt this investment would be easy to resurface when dropping it again. Just a couple of days ago a Oiya Kunisada TBH in most pristine polish, new Shirasaya, new gold foil Habaki sold for 4600 USD. This sword in the post is currently a 330.000 Yen blade. Upgrading it to TBH you will move it more towards a tier of blades that may be in the same price range but are significantly better in terms or qualiyt and scarceness. So if you pimp up your VW Golf literally putting it in the investment range of a Porsche 911 you will likely have a hard time to retain that value while the Porsche does much easier as it is juts a dfferent type of quality. getting the most expensive sound system in your 20 year old Golf will not put it ahead of all the other 20 year old Golf cars. It is like with many of the 100 - 200 USD Tsuba that you see offered at 400 - 500 USD because they have a Kanteisho. Will they thus remain their value? No, they don't they remain being wirth 100 - 200 USD. I agvree to much what Paul has said ... and yes, there is a growing demand in papers where it makes no sense. You do want to get your painting from a great master confirmed while you enjoy your average landscape painting for what it is ... taht is whaty ou see and like.

If one has no idea it sometimes helps to think harder Sometimes. But I'd take the pancake anyway. I do love pancakes. Thank you. Anyway, back on the original topic ... @ Ooitame: Please let us know about the Shinsa result also case you decide to go at TBH ... again cosinder how many pancakes the additional shinsa cost would buy you and if they will be again on the table when sellig the sword with the eventually updated TBH paper. Good luck and look forward to hearing about the results.