ROKUJURO

Grev, the TSUBA does not have the dimensions of a TOSHO and it is signed (on the wrong side), so why should it be a TOSHO? Perhaps it is just a plain and simple EDO JIDAI TSUBA, possibly painted/repatinated. The lack of a decoration does not make it a TOSHO, I think.

Tony, you can't tell the age of a sword by the signature. First you have to evaluate the signature. Does it confirm the overall appearence of the blade? Do all features comply with the usual details of this maker? When everything fits fine, then you may have the smith (or a very good GIMEI blade), and then you can look for the possible age. And then again, what does age tell you? It has not much to do with quality and value. There are 'old' blades with little value and 'new' blades of high quality and value. It seems you do not understand that we would like to help you by giving good advice. I am convinced that in the long range you will not enjoy a blade that you buy now in a rush, just hoping to grasp some nice quality. It is a bit like firing a bullet in the sky hoping to get an eagle's tail feather (Only Chuck Norris can do that - at night).

Probably both are tiring methods :D

John, it would be easier for us to help if the photo was well focused (try it at a little angle to avoid reflections and with daylight) and NOT posted upside down.

Dirk, that is a clean one with recent polish at no extra cost! Almost ready to be chrome plated...

Tony, leave it with that - just look, don't buy! The first item was far off the mark which represents the state of your knowledge and experience. I would suggest that you study first - NMB offers many ways to improve your connoiseurship! Should you really be in a hurry to get rid of some excess money buy from a renowned dealer here at NMB. They offer a fair and well based information and good value of the swords sold. They are interested in keeping up their good reputation which may not always be the case with unknown Ebay dealers.

Tony, if you compare this item - my computer refuses to type 'sword' - to some of the original KATANA you can find pictured here on the NMB you can identify it easily as Chinese junk of the lowest level. The TSUKA-ITO is probably some plastic coated textile band, and it is not at all carefully wrapped. All parts of the mounting are far off the originals, and the relatively careful work and precision you can find even on the latest Japanese WW II examples from mass production are some dimensions above this. If you take this loss as a learning experience, you have made a step in a good direction. I would like to encourage you to looking at authentic swords and buying some books on the subject if you are interested to continue. You will find many recommendations here.

Ken, while your nice TSUBA looks more like a KATCHUSHI style one (EDO JIDAI) to me, I believe there is copper when you saw it under magnification. As we know, the production of a TSUBA plate from raffinated TAMAHAGANE steel excludes other metals, so this must be a later addition. Perhaps someone tried to 'embellish' the TSUBA in earlier days with the addition of copper, and a connoisseur of later days restored the simple and elegant design without removing the copper completely? Just a guess to explain one possibility among many. If it is just on the surface, it may be scraped away with a fine, sharp steel tool.

Christian, thank you! Yes, I understand what you mean. Nevertheless I find it difficult to compare both TSUBA, the more as Mick's example has a somewhat corroded surface which makes it difficult for me to get an impression of the steel. The criteria for evaluating the artistical appearance are indeed difficult to grasp. As I mentioned above, all seems to depend on training one's eyes, comparing objects, and learning the vocabulary..... Finally, it is obviously not easy to judge a TSUBA to be 'good' or 'better' in terms of artistical merit.

Guido, of course I see the difference, and you can be sure I like the KYO SUKASHI better! My question was meant mainly to start a discussion on the aesthetics and artistical merits of a TSUBA in relation to the above used description 'better'. The SHOAMI TSUBA (let's call it so) has a lack of regularity, which seems to be intentional. Some of the circles are oval, but there is a symmetry of these irregularities on both sides. I cannot believe that the TSUBASHI could not do better, so I think it is his style, or at least his intention. In this respect, I don't see why a regular design should be of more value. Perhaps it is our eyes and/or our cultural education which makes us believe that a 'correct' execution of a certain design is 'better'? Let me put a (virtual) JINGO TSUBA on display. It will have a charisma of power and self-confidence, but nevertheless it will probably show a somewhat crude and irregular, not well refined design execution. We may call that 'bold'. Why is this one 'better' than another TSUBA? I have a feeling that any evaluation we try depends on what and how we have learned to see. Of course we add some obvious facts like steel and surface quality, but the main impression seems to be the design, and I was asking myself how much of my own appreciation is due to education and habituation. I found it interesting to ponder about that.

Gentlemen, I have a question to this discussion: Why would a finer design be 'better' in comparison? I cannot competently compare the workmanship and executing skills of these two TSUBA without seeing them in-hand. From the pictures both seem to be well made, quite regularly and even. The KYO-SUKASHI (John, not KANEIE!) from the SASANO book may be older and of course it transmits the impression of lightness and elegance, but from a technical or martial view, Mick's TSUBA might be as 'good' as SASANO SAN's, I feel. I don't believe there was less work involved in the production. For me, the steel quality is difficult to judge from the pictures, and the shapes of the SEPPA-DAI are - at least to my old eyes - not so much different to base an opinion of the quality on this. So please enlighten me what criteria you would use for a quality judgement (perhaps apart from general quality differences between KYO SUKASHI and SHOAMI).

Jean, as a consolation for your friend: probably a good polisher could remove these ugly stains in the YAKIBA....

John, congrats for the purchase! It looks quite impressive and healthy, but I do not see AYASUGI HADA (not 'AYASUGI HAMON') clearly enough to vote for GASSAN. Perhaps with better photos it would be more convincing.

Mike, as you may have read here on the NMB, the signature only confirms the specifications of a blade (or a TSUBA). Any judgements will be difficult with these photos and the condition the blade is in. Even close in-hand inspection and good light may not be easy and result in a safe KANTEI. The TSUBA could be anything, it has no relation to the blade or it's age. It is like a tie to a suit. My recommendation is that you preserve the blade by oiling it from time to time (read the chapters on care and treatment here on NMB), REMOVE the oil before putting the blade back in a SAYA, and show the items to a knowledgeable expert, perhaps on a club gathering or a show. The damages are bad but in my opinion could probably be 'repaired' by a good TOGISHI - of course not without loss of material. What could you do yourself right now besides this? You could start a research as to the signatures, find originals an compare. Good luck and courage!

Mike, the TSUBA might be signed YAMAKICHIBEI, just a guess. However, it doesn't look like a typical one. The blade may be older than WWII. The MEKIGI-ANA is drilled, but the patina of the NAKAGO looks more like late EDO, as far as I can see from the pictures.

Sage, thank you. As Adam already explained, we are/I am interested to learn about the process. If I allowed myself a question, it was more a doubt about my own knowledge and capabilities than to challenge your explanation (which is perhaps not he same as Ford's). I am a full-time bladesmith with some reputation and experience, and without even thinking to see myself on a level with Ford, I think I know a little how steel behaves under the hammer. As a training and for a better understanding of the subject I have forged a number of TSUBA, again I do not see myself as TSUBAKO! When I wrote ...'If metal is hammered down to a thinner plate it normally stretches out in all directions unless you 'push' it in a special way'...I gave one of perhaps several explanations myself, and it would have been interesting for me to hear the Master's comment (in English, not in Japanese!). Sage, should you ever wish to take classes at my forge in Germany, I would be happy to show you in practice what my question was.

Ford, thank you for your elaboration. What is that in ancient Egyptian, please? :D Probably AOKA KAMAE means 'train hard and you will understand one distant day', but I had indeed the same question as Adam and I really would like to understand if the large SEKIGANE was a technical necessity or a stylistical solution with maybe a background of a school. There is no critics behind it, I like the TSUBA and it's execution is marvelous. I always appreciate your generosity by allowing a look into your manufacturing techniques.

Is that really so? If metal is hammered down to a thinner plate it normally stretches in all directions unless you 'push' it in a special way. Usually you would end up with a smaller NAKAGO ANA, at least this is my experience. I would love to read Ford's comment on this point!

Pete, allow me to add a comment from my point of view. Owning a 'piece of history' requires some responsibility. Perhaps you heard about the reactions when a Japanese billionaire announced to take his famous Van Gogh painting (was it the water lilies?) with him in his grave when he died. It was his painting, of course, bought for a mere 110.000.000.-- $, but it was (and I hope it still is) a unique piece of cultural and historical value, and as such belongs to humanity. In my sight objects like these - and be it even a beaten-up WAKIZASHI bought for some small money - deserve respect and preservation, and maybe some research to find out their history. We do not own these, but we are allowed to hold them for a while and admire and protect them. Not looking at it's present condition, there was a lot of skillful work invested in it's production, and even if this blade was not made to be a JUYO, we have to respect the maker and his work. So it matters a lot in my eyes what one does with his collected objects of history or arts.

Jean, thank you for your thoughts which may be helpful to many beginners. I am sure you developed your ‘rules of thumb’ over long years of studying and collecting, and as we all know, experience can not be transferred from one person to another nor being learned from books. My personal experience in this field is that when I dived into these vast and deep waters some 40 years ago I had almost no money, but many swords and TOSOGU seemed cheap in relation to today! I had no real knowledge, so I bought what seemed to be nice in my uneducated eyes and what was affordable. Looking back I can say that I did not make too many mistakes (which has to do with the low level of my purchases), but learned a lot from what I was able to hold in my hands for a long term study. Now I have a different look at the items on the market, and I feel that it has become much more difficult for beginners, not only more expensive! There are so many modern fakes which we did not have in the mid-seventies! They are easily identified by educated collectors, but may deceive beginners. So I think that your recommendations make sense but are only applicable when you start to collect on a relatively high price level. Many new collectors are probably not able or willing to do so. But this is the same as in most collecting fields. If you were interested in old classic cars you would get the recommendation never to buy a restored car if not all replaced parts were absolutely original and genuine. So you have a threshold where you find your new hobby starting at € 50.000.— (or the double, in $ or GBP). The alternative would be a cheap old car on which you work on weekends and with some luck end up by really driving it (which may be the greater pleasure for some collectors). In theory, practice and theory should be the same, in practice, they are not….

Perhaps MORITA?

Ford, thank you for this exciting report! It is certainly not the same as looking over your shoulder in person at your workshop but it helps a lot in understanding techniques and getting an idea of how much experience is involved. I will immediately go down in my forge and make large numbers of these, and then sell them on E-Bay as HALLAM UTSUSHI at low prices..... :D

Watch out for special items: No. 1138 is a SHINSHINTO KATANA by MASAHIRO dated 1944....

The parts remind me of the KODOGU on an AIKUCHI (SAYA and TSUKA). Could they be for a similar fitting system?

Matt, usually it is difficult to understand what Christian wants to express (I have been tempted to help him out one time or another!) but I think he only meant that you got quite nice TSUBA at a very low price - for an amount which he usually spends for his weekly errands which is probably a humble sum. Certainly not a negative remark, I believe!