Gakusee

This is a misconception and an old belief. I hear it from time to time from the older generation collector but current thinking is not consistent with that approach.

We are getting somewhere …. You are learning…. That is the whole point of this exercise

Well, please compare those mei and let us know what you think. That is part of the learning curve and pleasure of investigation and improving one’s knowledge. Bear in mind that in the period you reference, the hamon looked different, wakizashi were already in place and signatures on short swords were on the other side, general geometry had shifted/changed from the kodachi (Kamakura) times etc

Then, please provide examples of the nijimei Muromachi Norimune and we can explore. However, the hamon and other features of the kodachi do not point in that direction.

….however, did he not sign with an Osafune mei..rather than the nijimei evident here….. ->Norimine (則宗), Ōei (応永, 1394-1428), Bizen – “Bizen no Kuni Osafune-jū Norimune” (備前国長船住則宗) signature Listen, nothing wrong with having a nice gimei blade that you can live with. Especially if a gift from your father. Mine, as much as I loved him and vice versa, would never have made me such a present and in fact was against “weapons” and such “fads” and collectible “varieties” - perhaps due to his very modest character and humble upbringing.

People might or might not have realised that Royal Mail / Parcelforce recently amended their rules specifying that antiques are excluded from the shipping ban. See below. Of course, you will need to provide plenty of documentation and evidence about why an item is an antique and what its purpose is (presumably a collectible). Since antiques are being treated as “restricted blades” by RoyalMail/Parcelforce, they will need to meet certain shipment / packaging conditions. See bottom of text below. So, let us stop complaining please and let us adapt and evolve. As humans, we have kept adapting to difficult conditions - we might not like them but we have found ways. ———————————————— Prohibited Bladed Items Hunting/combat/survival type knives, daggers, movie knives that promote violence (such as Rambo or Crocodile Dundee style knives), replica fighting knives, throwing knives, machetes, swords, fantasy knives, knives with images or words that suggest use for violence, stiletto knives, battle axes, open razors/folding razors and any similar items are prohibited and cannot be sent . Also see Weapons The following are not prohibited and will instead be treated as Restricted Bladed Items, provided the only intended use is one of the permitted uses listed below: Bladed items that are: commonly used for sporting activities; commonly used for religious or ceremonial purposes (must be blunted); sgian dubhs (must be blunted and for ornamental purposes); being sent to a recognised museum; commonly used in historical re-enactment (must be blunted); commonly used in theatrical productions (must be blunted); and antiques. Note: in order to avoid your item being treated as prohibited, in the event of any checks it would be helpful to include supporting documentation to enable us to verify the relevant permitted use listed above. Restricted Bladed Items Prohibited Bladed Items cannot be sent. However, other Knives or Blades as defined by s141A Criminal Justice Act 1988 or ‘Bladed Products’ as defined by s41 of the Offensive Weapons Act 2019 can be sent, provided certain conditions are met. These include but are not limited to any knife or knife blade, including cutlery knives, bread knives, knives that can be used for hobbies and trades (for instance, utility knives and snap-off cutters, gardening, camping, lock knives, bushcraft and farming tools with a blade or any other trade tool that could commonly be described as a knife), butcher knives (including meat cleavers), felling axes and razor blades. These items may only be sent using the Royal Mail Tracked Age Verification service; this service is only available through Royal Mail Click & Drop Items must be packaged appropriately so items present no risk to employees, other postal items or recipients. Wrap heavy cardboard around sharp edges and points, strong enough to ensure that the contents do not pierce the outer packaging. Wrap each item with cushioning material and place in a suitable outer container such as a padded envelope. The sender's name and return address must be clearly visible on the outer packaging. The outer packaging must be clearly marked to indicate a bladed item is enclosed and that it must not be handed to someone aged under 18. Note: this excludes folding pocket knives where the cutting edge of its blade does not exceed 3 inches (7.62cm) or razor blades permanently enclosed in a cartridge or housing where less than 2mm is exposed which can be sent without using Age verification service. Please Note: It is the senders’ responsibility to ensure compliance with the law. The following links to the legislation and guidance may assist but Royal Mail prohibitions and restrictions regarding the sending of bladed items must also be followed: Criminal Justice Act 1988 Offensive Weapons Act 2019 Statutory guidance: Offensive Weapons Act 2019

We are getting into hypotheses here. We do not know when the sword could be dated to as we have not inspected it and analysed it. No, I am not sharing my swords here….

Per se not an issue. I have owned two kodachi from the 1240-1260 period, both Bizen den. The one I have sold was papered, had the mei remaining at the tip of the tang and was 57cm long. I think originally it would have been a 65cm or so kodachi. The other one (still with me) is smaller, ubu, zaimei, papered and nagasa is 49cm. So we cannot discount it on the basis of length alone. Should be investigated further.

With a name like Norimune, you do stand up and pay attention to the mei. It does not make any sense not to. You look in order to immediately identify if it could theoretically be THE Norimune. Because then you have hit the lottery. Of course it goes without saying that the workmanship needs to support the mei…..I am not even going into that. Since here we are only really provided proper images of the nakago, that is why we are talking about it. The bottom end of the nakago is shaped and proportioned like a Muromachi Bizen nakago, which is somewhat inconsistent with other “kijimomo” proportions. I am not convinced about the mei etc. indeed it could be some other, unidentified Norimune Bizen smith….

Wrong His sayagaki were faked.

I think this is an understatement. Ichimonji Norimune is not just big but it is extremely big. He is the founder of the Ichimonji school ie Fukuoka so this would be as big as it gets in terms of “discovery”. So, yes, if it came from the West or even Japan - it would likely have been tried for papers…… Indeed here we cannot see if behind the suguha kesho polish one can find the kochoji that are expected. What however does not look promising is the mei. The space between the kodachi kanji is too wide and the sizing given the proportions of the nakago do not seem right. Attached are images of genuine Norimune. More compact, tighter together etc. The nakago would have probably been a bit slimmer too….

Well done Coden! Excellent achievement. I remember jointly checking out your other tsuba during the 2023 DTI and looking at its original-inspiration progenitor tsuba. This one is even better.

Looks like he built a rather valuable and diverse collection spanning the historic development of the Japanese sword.

Utsuri: light coloured. Antai (space between habuchi and utsuri): dark

Apart from the V&A and BM, the Tower used to have some tachi and katchu (even though the majority are now in the Armoury in Leeds) and also the Wallace Collection should have some Japanese items. The Japanese Gallery in Kensington is a well known swords and prints dealership, Peter Finer sometimes has Japanese swords, etc… You need to plan these things in advance and not post a last-minute request on NMB. Remember - this is the physical world, where appointments and planning are necessary versus the virtual world of insta-posting

Well done to the organisers for turning this around and saving the day, especially for those who had booked travel from overseas! Glad some of the old-timers in the photos (Bob, Gordon, etc) are there to usher in and coach the new generations (Ake, Jussi etc).

Yes

That is excellent koshirae. Congratulations on the acquisition.

May I recommend that perhaps we analyse a bit our likes / dislikes and what draws us to a sword in terms of some principal characteristics: - shape (do we like dainty, elegant swords or large, macho blades with okissaki; what kind of sori; what about niku/ shinogi/ horimono etc) - hamon (quieter vs exuberant, suguha vs midare, nie based vs nioi based, sareru or more shimiba, wider nioiguchi or tigher, presence of hataraki or absence) - jigane (clearer or with utsuri, tight vs larger, jihada - masame/mokume/itame etc etc, do we want lots of konie and chikei or not) - degree of preservation (state of blade, state of nakago eg mei or lack, etc) - other perks and elements that are nice to have (certain certificate level, provenance, koshirae, obvious signs of usage such as tameshimei or kirikomi) Once we are more structured in the approach to what draws us to a sword then we can discuss more pertinently what to do. The recommendation to keep going to Japan to see the most/best is a great one. Failing that, of course for a buyer based in the US working with someone like Fred or Mike or Ray Singer etc would be the way forward at high level.

https://markussesko.com/books/

David, And how can “the esteemed Token” provide guidance when Parcelforce or Royal Mail might themselves not be clear on how they apply the rules? And when different texts imply disparate interpretations? For instance the attached document clear mentions swords are “prohibited” while the website (which you have correctly quoted above) contradicts by stipulating that antiques are excluded. So, antiques, if documented for example with a combination of NBTHK certificates or NTHK certificates and a photocopy of a torokusho and clearly described as precious art objects of historic or cultural importance and not to be used as weapons, should in theory be accepted. UK destinations Prohibited Bladed Items cannot be sent. However, other Knives or Blades as defined by s141A Criminal Justice Act 1988 or ‘Bladed Products’ as defined by s41 of the Offensive Weapons Act 2019 can be sent using the Age Verification service. These include but are not limited to any knife or knife blade, including cutlery knives, bread knives, knives that can be used for hobbies and trades (for instance, utility knives and snap-off cutters, gardening, camping, lock knives, bushcraft and farming tools with a blade or any other trade tool that could commonly be described as a knife), butcher knives (including meat cleavers), felling axes and razor blades. Note: this excludes folding pocket knives where the cutting edge of its blade does not exceed 3 inches (7.62cm) or razor blades permanently enclosed in a cartridge or housing where less than 2mm is exposed which can be sent without using Age Verification service. Please note: It is the senders’ responsibility to ensure compliance with the law. The following links to the legislation and guidance may assist but Parcelforce prohibitions and restrictions regarding the sending of bladed items must also be followed: Criminal Justice Act 1988Opens in new window Offensive Weapons Act 2019Opens in new window Statutory guidance: Offensive Weapons Act 2019Opens in new window The following are not prohibited and will instead be treated as Restricted Bladed Items, provided the only intended use is one of the permitted uses listed below: Bladed items that are: commonly used for sporting activities; commonly used for religious ceremonial purposes (must be blunted); sgian dubhs (must be blunted and for ornamental purposes); being sent to a recognised museum; commonly used in historical re-enactment (must be blunted); commonly used in theatrical productions (must be blunted); and antiques. Note: in order to avoid your item being treated as prohibited, in the event of any checks it would be helpful to include supporting documentation to enable us to verify the relevant permitted use listed above. Important: Items intended by the person sending or receiving it to cause injury to a person are always prohibited and will be treated/handled as such regardless of whether or not they fall into one of the permitted uses above. Finally , it is one thing what is legal to be owned (the law) and what a private carrier (Royal Mail and its subsidiary Parcelforce) decides to do. So, theoretically there is the antiques loophole above but one needs to pre-educate Parcelforce, thoroughly (over-)document and rely on everyone in the Parcelforce chain having the same understanding and interpretation…… parcelforce-worldwide-account-our-prohibited-and-restricted-goods.pdf

Jussi, we ran the maths on a possible shinsa in Europe or UK in the recent couple of years. Having to subsidise business class travel and hotel costs for the shinsa panel meant we needed to gather hundreds of swords to make it happen. In the end, we could not make it work (as those who could afford or had the volumes for multiple submissions already have their swords papered….)

Yes Jacques, you are right. Not only the handwriting but also some small placement differences of the printed text but also the red seal top right. Frankly, not sure why.

These events in theory are always worthwhile but very difficult to pull off organisationally, so I always admire and am grateful to the organisers. The Japan Art Expo in Utrecht has proven it but it is difficult to make people attend and travel the distance, let alone bring swords. If one has to fly and transport their swords, people get cautious. If one drives to the destination with their items, it might be easier.

Probably right that it will not shift. It just has too much “top level authority” support underpinning it. The above list misses the Tokugawa Jikki, Tanobe’s sword book and the Kanto Hibisho documentation too. Interestingly, Kunzan sensei comments on the sword being a bit more rustic than usual and that the strong sunagashi could also point to Shizu. So, this “atypical” Masamune that is embedded as Masamune in history might just not qualify to be the pinnacle and epitome which TokuJu symbolises nowadays.