Lingonberry

Thank you Vermithrax. I'm having a tough time finding good examples of the signature because my google-fu is weak and 11/10 of my search results are companies selling machine made iaito named "dotanuki." I vaguely recall reading somewhere that when someone asked a smith to make them a sword the smith would make 3 blades, then ask the customer to choose their favorite. The one the customer picked would get the formal/official mei added to the nakago, whereas the other two blades would get a less formal mei and were either sold as-is or dedicated to a shrine. Then again, I also read somewhere that only the very best of a smith's work would be dedicated to a shrine so I'm not really sure about all that. I'm debating signing up for a shinsa slot in Tampa...

Just to be absolutely clear, I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Like I said in the original post the listing showed many pictures and made no secret of the possibility of hagire. I just want to clear up my own confusion as I keep hearing different things from different people. My main question is mostly about the mei because, though it looked okay to me, some people said "gimei" so that got me wondering what the sword really is if not dotanuki.

Only the one side.

Hi All, It's time I come to grips with the fact that I made a bad buy a few years back. I picked up something which several knowledgable people have told me is gimei and more likely than not also has hagire. Since there is no point sending to shinsa since it will auto fail I thought I would ask for some help on here to identify it. Couple of questions - 1. Age? I initially thought koto because in hand it has the "light and well balanced" feel and it seemed to have the right shape but now I'm not so sure. In my own photos the sugata seems rather straight. 2. School or smith? 3. In some light it looks like it has a boshi, in others it looks like the hamon runs off the edge in the kissaki. It's terribly confusing whether or not this sword even has a boshi. 4. 100% hagire, right? I'm fairly certain it is. The really sad thing is that despite all these issues it still has nice jigane and activity in the hamon, and also has a really nice fresh polish. I'm not really sure what to do with it at this point. A friend suggested I approach the seller and ask for a refund or trade but I don't think it would be fair of me to do that since A) I bought it several years ago so any semblance of a reasonable "inspection period" has LONG since passed and B) the seller was very clear that there was a potential hagire in the listing and provided ample photos. I'll be at the Tampa show so if anyone cares to look at it in person let me know and I will bring it with me.

...so they are. Been a long day...

Fuuten, those bat menuki in your first reply are amazing! Any idea who the artist or school was? Looks like the photos came from aoi art.

Hi All, I've been dipping my toes into tosogu and have seen several pieces with a nice bat & moon theme. I quite like this theme and would like to learn more about it - is there a particular story behind it, symbology, etc. I've also been looking for nice examples of it but so far have only found a few pieces. If anyone has any pictures to share of high quality tosogu featuring this theme I would very much appreciate it!

Thanks Peter. Truth is, I've been perpetually a newbie since I was in high school because I've never been able to afford to travel to the shows until I finally landed a job last Spring which *gasp!* actually pays market value for my education, professional certifications, and 5 years of experience. The other problem I've had is that it seems there are very few collectors in my area, though apparently there used to be enough to support a show? I was looking for a way to structure my study so I could finally grow from a novice to at least intermediate. As for killing greed, I've addressed that by deciding that I will plan a collection and will only purchase something if it is a high quality example of something I intend to include in my collection. Lastly, I thought a thread like this might help other newbies get an idea in how to grow their knowledge beyond drooling over photos on the internet. ("Lingonberry" was the username I picked for the gunboards forums when I was collecting Swedish Mausers. Still need to find an m94/14 Cavalry Carbine, an M96 with diopter sights, and a Mauser Obendorf M96, but that's another story...)

Sorry for the thread necromancy - are y'all on facebook? Maybe we would have a better chance of organizing something there?

That... sounds like something that could actually be done. I have multiple friends who are software developers, at least one of whome is a "game developer," and I imagine one could gather enough photos of Juyo or at least Tokubetsu Hozon pieces off the internet...

Say you were tasked with creating a university program that focused on nihonto that had 101, 201, 301, and 401 levels. How would you structure each class and what topics would you include? What would be the required reading and what kind of exercises or homework would there be? 101: Beginner Course a.k.a. "An Introduction to Nihonto" a.k.a "READ A BOOK!" Basic terminology/parts of a nihonto Different blade shapes (Tachi, Katana, Nagamaki, Naginata, Tanto, Wakizashi, etc.) Different time periods How to tell authentic nihonto from machine made or Chinese fakes Gokaden Books: Facts & Fundamentals of Japanese swords - Nobuo Nakahara and Paul Martin The Samurai Sword: A Handbook - John M. Yumoto The Japanese Sword - Kanzan Sato The Craft of the Japanese Sword - Leon & Hiroko Kapp, Yoshindo Yoshihara Encyclopedia of the Japanese Sword - Markus Sesko 201: Advanced Beginner Famous smiths and their styles Offshoots of the main schools, prominent smiths What are "kantei points?" NBTHK and NTHK - what are they and what do they do? How to tell what era a sword came from (shape, hamon, hada, etc.) Common kizu, what is fatal and what isn't, what is "normal" for a given time period Books: The Art of Japanese Sword Polishing - Leon & Hiroko Kapp, Yoshindo Yoshihara, Setsuo Takaiwa The Connoisseur's Book of Japanese Swords - Kokan Nagayama Koto Kantei - Markus Sesko Shinto Kantei - Markus Sesko 301: Intermediate Into to Tosogu(?) Reading NBTHK and NTHK papers Reading Mei in Nihongo ??? Books: Fujishiro's Nihon Toko Jiten(?) Uhhh... Toko Taikan? Koto Kantei - Markus Sesko Shinto Kantei - Markus Sesko 401: Advanced How to kantei to a specific school or even smith Shoshin Mei vs Gimei ??? Books: ???

Y'all DFW folk want to meet somewhere on June 30? Maybe lunch or dinner at Yama Izakaya? 2625 Old Denton Rd #920, Carrollton, TX 75007

Hey All, I just found this tansu at a local antique shop and put it on layaway. Not quite sure what type of tansu, but it looked nice (to me, anyway). Fair amount of wear & tear, however.

another +1 for a Texas club. It seems there are a few of us around.

Thanks for the replies! I had a feeling Markus' book would be the most recommended so I think I'll be grabbing those + an NBTHK membership.

I'm having trouble picking between Nihonto Koza, Yumei Koto Taikan, or Markus Sesko's Kantei books. (Already have Fujishiro's Nihon Toko Jiten) Which do you think is the wisest investment for someone wanting to go beyond the beginner level books recommended in the FAQ section? Any advice would be appreciated!

Honestly, the price is kind of a dead giveaway. Nobody who spends even a few days window shopping for nihonto on credible sites will believe prices that low for something looking that nice and it still be a real nihonto. Not only that, but anyone with half a brain knows not to buy anything valuable from China on ebay. As for people trying to sell them on later, I suspect these blades look real enough in pictures but not so much in hand. The fake patina on the nakago, for example... Still, I agree that these don't look bad for modern work and the smith would probably do much better if he were honest and sold them as reproduction/modern swords instead of passing them off as antique nihonto.

Been wanting to learn more about the Hojoji for a while. Always nice to see one pop up every once in a while.

YES ABSOLUTELY. First sword I ever got was a Kiyokane at a sword show in San Antonio when I was in high school. Always been jealous of people in places like NY, Chicago, or San Francisco with big clubs or shows nearby. One other idea: maybe make it about Japanese arts in general to get more public interest? Just a thought.

Really great job!

That's totally LV! Could you imagine a saya with the LV pattern on it? Or Burberry plaid? (Or even worse; Burberry plaid tsuka-ito!)

I've seen plenty of swords like this pop up in gun shows, gun stores, and estate sales. I could be wrong but I don't see anything WW2 about the fittings on that sword so it was probably more likely than not bought post-war, possibly by a GI during the occupation, and brought home as a souvenier. I don't think it's a suguha hamon either. Looks a little more gunome to me. Also, though it might just be the pictures, it looks like the yokote appears to be missing. In another thread with a sword with a missing yokote it was mentioned that though it is possible to restore it there would have to be a lot of metal taken off to do so. I'm sure the heavyweights will arrive soon with better information and advice.

I've seen some pretty cold receptions on this forum when a newbie comes in asking for advice on a sword they want to buy. There are plenty of people who happily give good advice but there are plenty of others who seem content to say little more than "that sword is junk, you're an idiot." I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that collecting nihonto is a historically elitist hobby. Another possibility (of which I am personally guilty) is a general dislike of anime fans who wish to buy nihonto for various reason but seemingly never for appreciation. To show off and brag to their friends? Yes. "Martial arts" practice? Sure. To help them live out their fantasy of being a modern day samurai? You bet. But to appreciate their artistic and historical merit? "You mean they're more than just an accessory for my cosplay?" Lastly, and this is a touchy subject, I fear that ageism may have something to do with newcommers sometimes getting a cool reception. Though I have personally never experienced ageism in the nihonto world I have expereinced it in the classic car world. When I was in my mid 20's I started to get interested in classic cars and went to a local club to ask for advice on what to look for when shopping for one, how to maintain it, etc... and almost always the people I was talking to would quite literally turn their back to me while I was talking to them. It felt as if I was being completely disregarded as a stupid kid with unrealistic fantasies and as such was completely unworthy of their time. It wasn't until the next year when I showed up with my "new-to-me" classic that anyone bothered talking to me. It's interesting to note that they were all very friendly to me after I bought the car. Go figure... I don't feel like it's too much of a stretch to say that there can and have been instances where nihonto-newbies feel like I did when I first got into classic cars. The one time I ever went to the Chicago sword show I was a freshman in college and I remember seeing a fair number of raised eyebrows. Didn't get any of that when I was a High School student at the now defunct San Antonio show, though, and I met plenty of friendly people at both.

I've been lusting after this one for years... I just wish the pictures were a bit better. http://www.sho-shin.com/sengo.htm And after seeing the samurai armor collection at the Kimbell last Sunday I've fallen in love with this Myochin kabuto. http://www.giuseppepiva.com/index.php/e ... ochyn.html

I was going to stop by the store and get some pictures after work today but I called them up to ask permission first and was informed that the armor is no longer available. Though I am disappointed I think that might be for the best. If I remember correctly the armor was in pretty poor condition and would've cost an arm and a leg to fix up. Guess I'll keep saving my pennies for a Myochin kabuto...