Lingonberry

Silly newbie question here... What can and cannot be restored on a suit of armor? I know many merchants sell replacement shikoro and small hardware but I haven't yet seen anything about repairing rust or damaged lacquer. The reason I ask is because a gun store near me has a suit of armor that has seen better days and they're thinking about getting it fixed up. Depending on whether or not it can be fixed up (and if it's worth the money) I might have a go at it. The armor itself is currently fairly inexpensive but I'd rather not get burned...

Thank you Darcy! Those posters will probably be the closest thing I will ever get to owning a real Ichimonji!

Silly question: Would you ever be willing to sell life-sized posters of some of your swords/photos?

I think it's just as likely, if not more likely, that the young people targeted by this would ask for more fantasy/anime swords rather than traditional ones.

Realistically (or perhaps not) an ubu Hojoji naginata. Not-so realistically, a tachi by Etchu Norishige.

Quick newbie question for Mr. Bowen: For future reference, how are you able to tell the signature is fake? I've read the gimei thread once or twice but the techniques to spot gimei in there seem to focus on comparing documented signatures with the suspected fake signature. (My guess in this case is that you can tell it's fake is because it looks a little sloppy in places, looks about to run off the edge towards the end, and is filled with red rust.)

I'm not saying a sword should't ever be polished if it has a kirikomi. I'm saying that polishing a sword just to get rid of kirikomi is a bit overkill. Not disclosing that a kirikomi may or may not be "battle damage" and part of the sword's history may lead people to see it as little more than a defect akin to a fukure or kita-ware and want to get a perfectly acceptable sword polished. It is my personal opinion that one or two kirikomi on a blade don't really detract any beauty from it nor do they make it hard to study the piece and thus don't warrant a polish in and of themselves. If something is covered in rust and pitting, however... To quite a tidbit from sho-shin.com: "It is perhaps a partial statement, but none the less not far-fetched, to say that the sword appraisal agencies and sword clubs in modern Japan have made up and created a mind set for today's collectors; and have set them like sheep for the polished, papered "Packaged" sword products. - Little notice has been taken that the real Samurai swords, the actual swords of the Samurai - are being wholly altered, ground up by polishing and re-constructed, essentially ending their specific histories."

I agree, though I think there is a caveat here. If the seller makes no attempt to bring up the sword's (possible) history then the kirikomi or other (possible) battle damage might get polished out. For some people that's fine as they seem to be of the opinion that there are no extant examples of swords with genuine battle damage (or think they're extremely rare). I would argue that polishing these things out if you DON'T know for a fact that it came from misuse and playing is a bad thing to do. My reasons being: 1. If it IS genuine battle damage, however unlikely you think it to be, you'd be taking away a part of that sword's history. Remember that nihonto aren't just art objects but historical objects, weapons, and also religious objects! 2. Being convinced that something is a "play mark" and wanting to get it polished might result in an unnecessary polish. Like you said, though... a sword should be purchased for its quality first and foremost.

The trouble is when people refuse to accept boring reality over romanticized fantasy which is unfortunately all too common.

It's worth the risk if you're very knowledgeable about the objects and know what you're doing as far as buying/selling. Darcy finding that Etchu Norishige at a gun show, for example... A room full of teenagers and 20 somethings at an anime convention most likely aren't going to be too successful at investing in arts and antiques.

Not all paths are good ones to tread. You must accept that your path does not just affect yourself, and in this case it may very well result in the permanent damage or even outright destruction of an irreplaceable piece of history. Live your life however you want but realize that your choices can and do affect others. Remember that after you're dead and gone the sword will still be there. Each time it gets polished to sharpen it you will be responsible for the removal of steel. Would you rather pass that sword down in the best condition possible like this (http://puu.sh/3q0n9.jpg), or something in a condition more like this (http://puu.sh/3q0qt.jpg)?

I'm going to say something here that will undoubtedly rustle some feathers... There is nothing wrong with learning Kendo or Iaido for their own merits, nor is there anything wrong with wanting to own a nihonto for its history (among other things). Similarly, there is nothing wrong with learning about the samurai and perhaps adapting adapting some of their ideas or philosophy to your own life, but I get the impression that you wish to take things much farther than that. The last samurai died in the 1800's and even by that time they weren't warriors so much as idle government bureaucrats. Learning kendo/iaido and using an antique katana (that may not have ever actually been owned by a samurai) will not make you a modern day samurai. As was mentioned in the previous thread about using nihonto for tameshigiri, the idea of bushido itself technically only dates back to a book written in English in 1905... The only reason I'm saying this (and perhaps being a bit rude about doing so) is because I encountered an individual who absolutely fit the bill for a wannabe American samurai. Its his life (and yours) but the reason I took issue with this was because he absolutely INSISTED on using what he claimed to be a 700 year old, $20,000 sword for tameshigiri. It likely wasn't but that is beside the point. He was giving a lecture at a convention about how to pick good swords for martial arts and mentioned "investor grade" swords (IE antiques) multiple times as a good option. Not only is it laughable to consider any antique or art a good investment, but the idea of using antique swords for tameshigiri, as has already been pointed out, is simply unacceptable. I confronted him after his lecture to ask him to clarify some things. I kept asking, directly and indirectly, why he absolutely HAD to use that sword, or any other antique, for practice rather than an iaito or even shinsakuto and he eventually blurted out "I'm samurai." Not even "I'm like a modern samurai" or anything like that. He claimed to have many years of martial arts training and had read many, many books on swordsmanship and even tried to say that all that made him a better caretaker for a nihonto than any collector. The icing on the cake was when he said that all nihonto were made as weapons and therefore using them for martial arts practice was "honoring" them because he was using them for their "intended purpose." I'm sorry, but weapons are meant to cleave human flesh, not straw mats. If you're really using your nihonto for their "intended purpose" then you'd be rotting in prison. So what's my point in all this? If you insist on using an antique sword for martial arts just to feel like a samurai then you've reduced it from a historical object, art object, weapon, and even religious object into nothing more than a toy. It literally just becomes a prop in a make-believe game you're playing. These swords have been around for much longer than any of us and, with proper care, will be around for much longer still. When you buy a real nihonto, or any other antique or historical relic, you don't really own it in the sense that you can do whatever you want with it. That object comes with an obligation to take good care of it so that future generations may enjoy it. Never, ever forget that.

Sometimes people sneak a peek and touch when you're not looking. I had friends over for a BBQ/Pool Party and showed them a katana and explicitly told them not to touch it. Imagine my annoyance when I looked at it a few days later with a very clear fingerprint right next to the Habaki. Good thing it didn't appear to have started any rust before I managed to clean it off. I'm pretty sure I know who it was, but fortunately she's gone for good now...

I know of a shop in Kyoto but I don't recall its name or how to get there but I can ask one of my sempai from my Uni days if they remember. I'm pretty sure they have iaito but I don't know if they have any shinsakuto. I wouldn't be surprised if they could help you find one though.

There is a .PDF in the articles section about the different types of tsukamaki and it has a picture of something galled "Kigami (ganpi) maki." It's on page 14. The article is here: http://www.militaria.co.za/articles/Tsu ... Styles.pdf A quick google of ganpi maki found this blog post about a tanto with a "paper base" itomaki: http://apps.tsukamaki.net/Blog/?e=34229 ... 20Koshirae Not much info, I know, but hopefully it sets you in the right direction!

After hunting around for a bit I found a thread where it was discussed. Looks like in addition to differing levels of polish swords made for martial arts are made with lesser quality materials, and the smiths take shortcuts to speed up the process presumably to make the sword more affordable. The art swords on the other hand are made with high quality materials and the smith avoids shortcuts (I wonder if that includes not using power tools of any kind?)

If I am not mistaken, many modern swordsmiths (if not all) make shinsakuto for use in martial arts, correct? From what I understand the only difference between an "art sword" and one made for martial arts is the polish. They're both perfectly capable of the task but only the one without the full fancy-pants polish is used for tameshigiri.

I'm not too sure this is the right place for this thread but I wasn't too sure I wanted to clutter up the katchu section with what might be a silly question. I know there is a recommended reading list for nihonto but I do not recall seeing anything of the like for katchu. I'm looking to start reading on the subject but I don't really know where to begin. I'm hoping there is/are a book/books comporable to "Facts and Fundamentals of Japanese Swords," "The Connoisseur's Book of Japanese Swords," etc... Would anyone be kind enough to point me in the right direction? On another note, apparently there is a museum that opened here in Dallas with a rather nice collection of armor and other samurai arts. Apparently the Ann and Gabriel Berbier-Mueller collection is housed there. I'm planning on visiting and seeing if they have any volunteer opportunities (as well as asking for advice on where to learn more about katchu). If anyone finds themselves stuck in a long layover in Dallas it might be worth checking out!

Amazon actually has a partnership with a publishing company called createspace that more or less does what Adrian seems to be talking about. They call it the "manufacturing-on-demand" model, where books are printed as customers order them. I have no idea what this does with pricing, though. http://www.amazon.com/gp/seller-account ... =200260520

I believe conventional wisdom is not to buy anything at your first sword show. That being said, I bought something at my first show... I can't think of any reason why foreigners wouldn't be allowed to attend sword shows. I know of two shops in Tokyo that were not at all bothered by lowly ryugakusei like my friends and I looking at their wares. Being able to speak a little Japanese will certainly help as well as exhibiting knowledge about nihonto. You might want to arrange to meet up with someone from NMB in Tokyo to go with you. Even if you don't buy anything you will probably make a friend.

The point I was attempting to make with that statement was that one should focus on quality rather than quantity. I think there are many people here who would cringe at the thought of viewing nihonto as investments. It's probably a lot easier to sell the cheaper ones than it is to sell the really nice, expensive ones. There is a sword for sale on this forum that is priced at 19,000 Euros and has been available for some time. There is another sword on Fred Weissburg's website going for $125,000 that has been available for a year (as well as many other swords). High priced items do sell but not very quickly so if you need to liquidate in a hurry.... Again, try to focus on quality rather than quantity. I'm not suggesting you accept anything less than a $10,000 sword but rather that you take your time to figure out what you'd like to have in your collection and focus on getting good items that fit your wants and needs. In my limited experience, the swords that fall into the $1,000 tend to be in rather poor condition in that they are out of polish or have flaws. There isn't much point in buying something if you can't clearly see any of the details. If you do then you may find yourself sitting there looking at it and thinking "yup... that's a sword alright." I get the impression that you're absolutely determined to make a purchase, and soon, so waiting until you have a bigger budget isn't really on the table. I figure just about everyone here was the same way when they were just getting started and there is little anyone can do to dissuade you. The only thing I can advise you on this particular matter is that you seek out a good reputable dealer who can help you find something within your budget. What they offer you might not initially suit your fancy but you will likely find that you "grow into" it when you learn more about nihonto and will start to appreciate it more. That's how I got started and I was quite lucky that a gentleman at a sword show in San Antonio, Tx sold me a Tsutsui Kiyokane in naval mounts. It was, and still is, not in too great a polish with chips on the monouchi. I was initially excited that I had a genuine nihonto, even if it wasn't the greatest thing around. A few years went by and I started to lose interest in it because of its condition. However, once I started actually reading the books I had and learning how to really look at and appreciate the details I came to realize that I was very lucky to have such a nice sword. It's no juyo, of course, but it's nothing to scoff at either. As for the $1500 wakizashi; If you're interested in making your first tosogu purchase then you should view the wakizashi blade as an added bonus rather than the main feature. If you're looking for a first nihonto then you might want to look for something in shirasaya so the price more reflects the blade rather than the fittings. There are some pretty good dealer sites in the links section that have items in that price range that you might want to take a look at.

Just remembered some more stuff... A small collection with one(1) $10,000 sword is infinitely superior to a collection of ten $1,000 swords. There is no hard set value for nihonto. Asking if something is worth "x" amount is tantamount to asking "how long is a piece of string." An item is only worth as much as you're willing to spend. Before you buy something you should ask yourself some questions: 1. Why do I like this? 2. What, exactly is this? (as in, what are the features of the item. What kind of hada, hamon, boshi, suriage or ubu, jidai, etc...) 3. Does the description of the item accurately describe it? 4. Do the features of the item match the work style of the smith or school it is claimed to be/signed by? (the blade confirms the signature, not the other way around) 5. When reading the item's description, can I form a mental image of the item without seeing photographs of it first? Does my mental image roughly match the photographs? (In other words, "do I even understand what the terminology in the description is saying?") 6. Why do I like this? (yes, I put that in there twice) Lastly, I'm going to adapt some advice I received pertaining to my chosen profession of internal auditing (que ominous thunderclap). Don't go to your mentor/mentors with a problem and ask them to solve it for you or tell you what to do. If you encounter a problem you should come up with several ideas of your own and ask your mentor if your thinking was correct. For nihonto collecting this means don't show pictures of a sword to your mentor and ask them "is this good? Is it worth the asking price? Is it really what the seller claims it is?" Instead, answer those questions yourself and then ask your mentor if you were right and if you're not, explain why.

As a fellow newbie I can relate to your eagerness to get started. That being said, however, I think I can summarize almost anything that will be said in this thread... The first thing you're going to want to do is buy a bookshelf. Then you're going to want to spend that $1,500 on a library of rare, out of print books about nihonto. After reading your book collection you'll be ready to get started with nihonto. There is a reading list in the FAQ section of this website that lists many great books and splits them into beginner books and advanced books. I believe there is also an article that extols the virtue of planning a collection in advance. Doing so requires lots of research so you'll know what's what, developing your taste, and limiting purchases to things that actually fit into your collection plan (and thus preventing impulse buys). With that out of the way I have a feeling that you're going to do what I and many other newbies probably did; buy a sword anyway.:lol: If you do go that route then I recommend you read and old thread I started entitled "beginner's sword" viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12327 To summarize that thread: "1. Don't consider buying anything until you're confident in your ability to pick out a good quality item by yourself (but you should still seek assistance/advice from more experienced collectors whenever possible) 2. There is no such thing as a "beginners" sword, and if you see one labeled as such it might not be too great a quality (even though the price might be fair for what it is) 3. Buy the best item you can reasonably afford, but make sure you buy from a trusted source and verify your opinions with the opinions of your mentors whenever possible before committing. 4. Stay away from "gems in the rough," i.e. items in need of restoration, as the restored item may not have been worth the cost of purchase + restoration (I don't think I saw this mentioned in this thread, but I feel that it was implied a little bit) 5. Try to avoid buying anything online unless you have seen it in person at least once. Pictures may not be accurate and issues may not be disclosed on the website. Also, you might see something "wrong" (either a flaw or something you don't personally like) once you get the item in person which the dealer didn't see or disclose. Even with inspection periods you'll still lose precious funds on shipping/insurance. 6. Get a really well paying job!" I think a lot of the advice you will receive in this thread will revolve around buying books first. I can speak from experience that some of the advice you're going to get will feel patronizing but please remember that the people here are only trying to help. I think many newbies, myself included, are unpleasantly surprised at how complex nihonto collecting can be and many of us are stuck learning from our mistakes the hard way. Considering that the average nihonto costs as much as a used car I would say that learning the hard way is absolutely to be avoided!

That certainly makes more sense than what I was thinking! :lol:

In hindsight, saying the newer swords handle like "meat cleavers" wasn't the best choice of words. I wonder what is is about the wider blades cutting more easily. This is probably a terrible analogy, but I'm imagining the difference between something like a hacksaw and a regular hand saw. The hacksaw has a narrower blade which allows the user to cut curves and so on whereas the hand saw is fairly wide and can only cut in a straight line (more or less). The wide hand saw blade prevents it from turning or changing the "angle of attack" while cutting. I imagine a wider sword would similarly resist turning during the cut and make it a bit easier to keep the cut nice and straight, thus making the cut in general a bit easier. Of course, I've never actually done tameshigiri so I could be dead wrong. In general, though, I imagine they are also much better able to resist the shock or impact of hitting something than an older blade with a narrower monouchi.