Shugyosha

Hi Ken, Maybe it's simply them being prudent with their description: if the specific smith isn't mentioned in the paperwork, then perhaps they are reluctant to make a representation as to which it might be. The kasane suggests that it is very healthy and looking at the pictures there is no suggestion of kitae ware, o hada or shin tetsu showing. The possible detractors are, as you say that it is a little short of the magic 70cm, that it isn't a mainline school (though see Paul's comment on this above) and perhaps that it wasn't passed at one of the early Juyo shinsa... but it is Juyo Token and I would suggest that quality wise it compares very favourably with this Juyo Yamato Shizu blade for around the same money: http://www.aoijapan.com/img/sword/2015/15772-2.jpg John

Hi Ken, The problem is it depends on which Nio Kiyotsuna you're talking about as there are a number of smiths in Suo province using the same name. A further issue is that Aoi's description says "late Kamakura period" and so it also depends on how late is late. This is from Markus Sesko: KIYOTSUNA (清綱), 1st gen., Genkyū (元久, 1204-1206), Suō – “Kiyotsuna” (清綱), called Niō Saburō (二王三郎), according to tradition the son of Kiyozane (清真) and the grandson of Kiyohira (清平), but this does not match with his handed-down active period of Genkyū because Kiyozane worked around Kenchō (建長, 1249-1256) and Kiyohira around Bun´ō (文応, 1260-1261), some sources list Kiyotsuna as actual founder of the Niō school, a legend says that the name of the school goes back to a tachi of Kiyotsuna which was once used at a temple fire in Suō´s Kizakimura (木崎村) to cut the chain which locked-up the gate of the Niō-dō (二王堂) so that the precious Deva statue (Niō-son, 二王尊・仁王尊) could be rescued, but Tanobe Michihiro assumes that the name of the school rather goes back to the Niho fief (仁保) which was located in the Yoshiki district (吉敷) of Suō province, the blades show noticeable Yamato-influence, i.e. a suguha mixed with ko-gunome, hotsure and sunagashi in the style of the Shikkake school in combination with a (not pure) masame-hada and takanoha-yasurime, the subdued and hazy nioiguchi has something in common with Kyūshū-mono, jō-saku ◎ KIYOTSUNA (清綱), 2nd gen., Jōei (貞永, 1232-1233), Suō – “Kiyotsuna” (清綱), first name Ushisaburō (丑三郎), he signed the character for “tsuna” also in the variant (縄), his handed-down active period is doubtful, suguha, ko-gunome KIYOTSUNA (清綱), Bun´ei (文永, 1264-1275), Suō – “Kiyotsuna” (清綱), called Niō Saburō (二王三郎), it is said that he came originally from Chikuzen province, there exists a tachi with the date signature of the second year of Bun´ei (1265), it is likely that this entry refers actually to the 1st gen. Kiyotsune because also the first names match, the mentioned tachi has a koshizori, a thick kasane, a broad shinogi-ji and a high shinogi, the jigane is a dense ko-itame mixed with masame, irregular so-called herakage (箆影) appear, this is a kind of utsuri which runs over the yakigashira into the ji, the hamon is a suguha, a suguha with ko-ashi, hotsure and sunagashi, or a gunome mixed with ko-midare, always in ko-nie-deki, he chiselled the lowermost stroke of the left radical (氵) of the character for “Kiyo” (清) in a perpendicular manner and the first and third strokes of the right radical (青) – i.e. the uppermost horizontal strokes of the upper part – in an interrupted manner, that means chiselled from both sides towards the central vertical stroke, at the character for “tsuna” (綱), the fourth, fifth and sixth strokes – i.e. the lowermost strokes of the left radical (糸) – are all chiselled from bottom to top KIYOTSUNA (清綱), Einin (永仁, 1293-1299), Suō – “Kiyotsuna” (清綱) KIYOTSUNA (清綱), Gentoku (元徳, 1329-1331), Suō – “Kiyotsuna” (清綱), he signed the character for “tsuna” also as (繩), deep sori, chū-kissaki, ko-itame-nagare mixed with masame, suguha with ko-gunome-ashi in ko-nie-deki which tends to a slightly undulating notare KIYOTSUNA (清綱), Kenmu (建武, 1334-1338), Suō – “Kiyotsuna” (清綱), “Bōshū Kuga-jū Kiyotsuna” (防州玖珂住清綱), “Niō Kiyotsuna” (二王清綱), he lived in Kuga (玖珂), there exists a tantō with the date signature of the third year of Kenmu (建武, 1336) There may be something in the paperwork that helps to tie it down but neither my eyesight nor my Japanese is good enough for it to be obvious. Lovely sword though... Best, John P.S. Some info here on Shoshin.com - http://www.sho-shin.com/smiths1c.htm

Hi Mr Billion, I don't particularly have a problem with the patina on the tang as the lighting can make a difference to how dark it looks, but for me the nakago jiri is shaped differently to those included in Fujishiro and to this example on Shoshin.com: http://www.sho-shin.com/sukehiro.htm So I'm a bit dubious, particularly as this is a rather big name but I'm not any kind of authority. If you can post some pictures of the blade people may chime in with some other views. Also, and sorry to be picky, but there is a forum rule about board members using our real names as opposed to our handles - there is the facility to set a signature up in the settings. Kind regards, John

Hi Dave, Is that a Kindjal to the left of the targe? A lovely looking blade. Best, John

John and Stephen, I like your reading of the name better than mine. I'm not sure that this is heading in the right direction, but this similar style signature is from Markus Sesko's Swordsmiths of Japan: NOBUKUNI (信国), Genroku (元禄, 1688-1704), Ōshū – “So jūdai-me Minamoto Nobukuni” (祖拾代目源信国, “10th gen. Minamoto Nobukuni after the founder of the school”), “Chikuzen no Kuni-jū Minamoto Nobukuni Yoshihiro saku” (筑前国住源信国吉寛作), “Ōshū Morioka-jū Minamoto Nobukuni” (奥州盛岡住源信国), real name Shindō Heibei (新藤平兵衛), he came originally from Chikuzen´s Fukuoka (福岡) and was the second son of Nobukuni Suketsugu (信国助次), he counted himself as 10th gen. Nobukuni, he moved first from Fukuoka to Kurume (久留米) and then during the Tenna era (天和, 1681-1684) via Edo to the northern Morioka (盛岡), in earlier years he had also signed with Yoshihiro (吉寛), after the move to Morioka he dropped this name and signed just with Nobukuni, he died on the 21st day of the first month Genroku twelve (1699) If this is relevant, presumably the guy who signed the sword in Stephen's OP was the ninth generation, the father of this entry...but I have had a couple of beers now and my judgement may be impaired... Best, John

Hi Stephen, I've had a bit of a punt at this but I could use some help. I think that it ends Minamoto Nobuyori (原信目) but I can't tie down a couple of kanji from the start and so can't get the whole thing to make sense. It goes something like: 祖 - ancestor/ founder 九 nine / ninth 代 generation Then I lose the next couple of kanji. The first one looks a bit like it could be 之 but I can't be sure. The next one looks clear enough but I can't find a kanji that looks sufficiently similar. Perhaps someone can bail me out... I hope that has helped a bit. Best, John

Hi Rodriguez, The last one: 相模国住人 (?次) 廣 Sagami Kuni Ju Nin ? Hiro. The kanji before last is difficult to read and I'm not sure but I'd guess Tsugu . "Tsuguhiro a person living in the province of sagami". Best, John

Hi James, Yes - you have one part of a two part habaki. This, the thickness of the tsuba and perhaps some metal washers called seppa used to snuggle everything down tightly account for the difference between where the tsuka comes to and the hamachi and munemachi. If you google "two part habaki" you'll get the picture. Best, John

Hi James, Based on the shape as it is - fairly straight and a smallish point I would be tempted to guess somewhere around 1660 - it looks like a Kanbun sugata but it may not be in its original form i.e. with a re-worked point and so it's hard to be definitive. The jigane looks quite dark in colour (though this might be the photography rather than the blade) and that might give a clue as to it's origins but it might not be possible to tie it down more closely than to a particular region. A quick Google on this kantei point led me to Markus Sesko's Encyclopaedia of Japanese swords which suggests that swords from the Hokkoku region, (the northern provinces), have this kind of jigane so: Wakasa, Echizen, Etchuu, Echigo, Noto, Kaga and Sado. Anyway, I hope that helps to get a discussion going. KInd regards, John

Hi Ken, Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Aoi Art and have bought from there in the past and will probably do so in future; after all it's my daily source of fresh sword porn. However, a lot of the descriptions for the swords on Aoi Art are cut and paste jobs so words (and typos) used in a description of an earlier sword get regurgitated, most likely due to the fact that whoever is working the web site is not a native English speaker. "High ranking polisher" appears frequently. Also, as you will appreciate, there is a certain amount of fishing going on and "possible juyo candidate" is the bait in this case. Aoi would be amongst the best placed to know the difference between TH and juyo and have easy access to juyo shinsha, yet have opted not to put their money where their mouth is, so a pinch of salt is required I feel. That said, it's a longer than average blade and in decent condition given its age and it will be interesting to see what it sells for. Best, John

Hi Robert, There's a sayagaki by Kanzan Sato here: http://www.aoijapan.com/img/sword/2015/15808-3.jpg Sorry, my IT skills aren't up to doing a side by side shot, I'm struggling with flicking back and forth between pictures but at first glance it certainly looks like you might have a winner. Nice sword! Best, John

I don't know whether it's Tsuruta san's photography or the swords themselves, but they often do have a "dead" look to them and I think this one falls into that category for me. It might be great to look at in hand but the picture doesn't do a great deal to sell it - when I'm lucky enough to own a kamakura era piece I'll want it to look like it came from the golden age of Japanese sword production and this one doesn't. An example from the same period: http://www.aoijapan.com/wakizashi-mumei-aoe-2 Half the (starting) price and with more going on. Best, John

If it was my money I was spending I would be looking at other items: Re 45: I'd want to have a closer look at this one to see how bad the rust was. According to Markus Sessko's book the first two generations signing “Yamashiro no Daijō Fujiwara Kunikiyo” (山城大掾藤原国清), were ranked jo saku and the third chu saku so perhaps a good sword there at a decent price if no-one bids it up too much. The first two generations were permitted to carve the chrysanthemum with their signature so probably one of these smiths but the third generation made dai saku swords for the second. 48 is the pick of the bunch for me, though I feel that the starting price is a bit on the high side. It's an interesting shape, it's in reasonable fittings, in polish and signed and it looks like a very thick blade. Also, probably not a sufficiently famous smith to make it worth the trouble of forging a signature. Again from Sessko: UJIYOSHI (氏善), Kanbun (寛文, 1661-1673), Owari – “Wakasa no Kami Fujiwara Ujiyoshi” (若狭守藤原氏善), “Wakasa no Kami Fujiwara Ujiyoshi” (若狭守藤原氏良), “Bishū-jū Fujiwara Ujiyoshi” (尾州住藤原氏良), “Ujiyoshi” (氏良), he signed his name with the characters (氏良) and (氏善) whereas it is assumed that (氏善) was the earlier variant, before he settled in Owari´s Narumi (鳴海) he worked in Mino province, mokume mixed with masame, mostly a midareba. Best regards, John

Or it could be his score for a long weekend in Yoshiwara.

The first two kanji for the second one look like "Echizen" but I can't quite see the third.

Sorry to both Steves. I completely missed that it had already been translated in the earlier post. Bugger. At least it got me looking at some kanji and kept me amused for a while. Apologies once more. John

許特賣專? 号六0一二三一第 I'm struggling to match the fifth kanji on the first line and I'm not sure that I have the last kanji on the second line correct. The reading of what I have of the first line is something along the lines of "expressly licensed to sell/ deal exclusively..." and the second line is "number 601231...". So maybe an exclusive license to deal under a particular authorisation number. Sorry...it's getting easier to track down appropriate kanji but I still struggle to make any sensible meaning out of what I get. Hope I'm not too wide of the mark and that some kind person will correct me if I'm wrong. Best regards, John

And it might be thought a pretty good buy compared to the one available at Nihonto.ca for $30k. Is it me or is it machi okuri?

Now for sale at a starting price of JPY 4 million: http://www.aoijapan.com/tanto-muramasa Best,

Maybe Tadamitsu? It doesn't look quite right but there is an Osafune connection...so definitely maybe... Best, John

Thanks Jean. John, Rather than buy a book to cover this period, I think you would be better off trying to narrow down the smith to a particular province first of all. I've had a look through Hawley's Japanese Sword Smiths and there is a Katsumitsu working in Kaga between 1573 - 1596 and signing nijimei who looks like being the best candidate for the maker of your sword. The reference number is KAT119 and Hawley's notes say that he worked in the late Bizen style, was the first generation and Hawley gave him 15 points. He is also referenced in Fujishiro's Nihon Toko Jiten - I may have examples of his signature in my reference books but I don't have a working scanner at the moment - I'll have a go at taking some pictures of the relevant pages and see what they come out like. There are a number of other smiths signing Katsumitsu in Hawley's but this guy is the only one working in a period that covers the date on your sword. Best, John

Hi John, Assuming the signature is legit, it's not a gunto but a traditional blade in army mounts. The signature is 勝光 - katsumitsu and the date is 天正十 四 年二月日 a day in February in the 14th year of Tensho (February 1587). Hope that helps, John

Another one here: http://www.sanmei.com/contents/media/O102148_S827_PUP_E.html

The one at Nihonto.com is obvious enough for me to call Yamato, but would have probably guessed at Hosho had I not seen the attribution. The sword at Aoi art doesn't (to my uneducated eye) have sufficiently obvious Yamato traits for me to even call the province - far too subtle for me. Best, John

Also on Alan Bale's website number 1613: http://www.japaneseswordbooks.com/Tsuba.html