Brian

I know what you mean :D :D Folks..let's please keep the comments to the items and less about the sellers if possible. Just a polite request for now for obvious reasons Brian

That is Christian...a member of some of the other forums. I have dealt with him before, and he is a decent guy. He finds LOTS of swords through contacts he has, and comes across some very nice stuff. The best he keeps for his own collection, but he always has a huge variety of stuff for sale. IMHO..Easy to deal with, and pleasant. Brian

Hayri, I think it is the very helpful Stephen (who is well on his way to getting his desired rank) you are refering to, and to whom you sent the pics? I am sure they will be posted soon. Perhaps if you tell us where you are, we can see if there is a member near you who can assist in person, or guide you to a group who can help. Looking forward to the rest of the pics. Brian

Here are the pics Dennis emailed. Looks like an interesting blade. Folks..please remember that the How-To forum contains lots of info on how to resize pics, upload them etc etc. You can resize using Windows Paint or other free progs..all the info is in there. No harm done though..you can always email me if you are stuck Regards, Brian

Bobby, That is not Japanese, and I don't think it is very old. It looks like it comes from Indonesia, Thailand or Burma, and they are usually made for the tourist trade. That flexible blade is typical of these types of swords. Japanese blades do not bend like that. I am afraid this has no interest for Japanese sword collectors, and I think the info you have on it is very false. At the most..I think it might be 100 years old..but I think it is more likely it is about 40 years old. Sorry to give you the bad news. Brian

Hi Dennis, The pics didn't upload. Please check out this thread: http://www.militaria.co.za/nihontomessa ... ic.php?t=8 Regards, Brian

Danny, Great article, thanks for sharing. For those of you who haven't browsed through some of the other articles there, take a look. There are some very interesting and unique articles. But ouch! Am I the only one to whince at some of the blades that were tested to destruction back then? Muramasa..Tadamitsu...Norimitsu..Masaiye... I understand the feelings expressed by "The cutting ability should be the first consideration for a Nihonto. Its beautiful appearance comes in second. A true Nihonto should fulfill the first requirement of being a weapon and that is to cut well. The beautiful appearance is only secondary. Art-sword theorists have the priority of this all wrong." but I am not sure I agree with them completely. The function of the sword is the most important thing...up to a point. When it becomes of such age and significance that the weapon aspect is secondary to the cultural and artistic value..then shouldn't it be regarded as beyond weapon status and become worthy of preservation purely for the art aspect? I am surprised that around WW2 this attitude wasn't held more highly. Surely the swords that were dedicated to shrines were not seen firstly as functional weapons, and secondarily as symbolic gifts with a higher purpose? So the question is raised...when did important swords start being awarded Juyo status in spite of hagire or other fatal flaws? Was this before the war..or after? This would indicate a change of attitudes towards the value of historical significance vs the functionality. Only in swords that are above a certain level of course...but i am glad there was a slight change of mindset. Otherwise the wanton confiscation and destruction of swords after WW2 cannot be faulted? Just some ranbling thoughts though. Great article, thanks! Brian

Hayri, My email can't be full...it doesn't have a limit. But I am sure these pics must be too big. Right click on each pic..and check the properties. What is the size of the pics? If they are anything over about 500kb each..then resize them first. I suggest going to http://www.imageshack.us and upload them there, and then post the direct link to the picture in your post. You can upload all of them there, one at a time. The instructions to do this are also in the link above. If Imageshack won't upload them, then each pic must be bigger than 1.5MB which is their limit. Regards, Brian

hayri.. Please edit your post and sign with your name and initial please as per the rules? We will be glad to help with your sword where possible. Read here : http://www.militaria.co.za/nihontomessa ... um.php?f=8 on how to upload pics, resize images and the maximum file sizes etc. If you cannot upload after that, the pics are probably too large or you are not attaching them correctly. If you still do not come right, email or pm me, and I will try to assist. You can also upload them to imageshack, and link to them here. All the instructions are in that link above. Regards, Brian

I have an old Sony Cybershot 3MP, and a Canon 300D Digital SLR. I use the Canon now almost exclusively for my photos, but I must admit that without a macro lens for my Canon DSLR, whenever I am doing any close up work, I find myself grabbing the Sony which does great close-up work up to about 8cm. I would say that if you plan on doing a lot of close up tsuba and blade photography, then you will find you are going to need a lens with a good macro function. You are not going to get the same results zooming in as much as possible from a greater distance. Spend the extra and get a macro lens, you won't regret it. Brian

Milt's post got me researching a bit on the net, and I came up with some interesting info on Japanese patinas and alloys. Just thought I would share. For those of us who don't have the Japanese Patinas book..these provide some interesting background to the various processes and metals that were used. Of course I do NOT recommend trying any of these to re-patina any original fittings, as you will likely just screw them up, and maybe even dissolve the solder, but they are none the less very interesting. http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/directo ... bject/86/1 Some very interesting exerpts from the book, with pics. There are a few pages of info including on all the metals and solutions. Fascinating stuff! http://www.hooverandstrong.com/articles/?id=36 Has this fascinating info: "In her work with shibuichi, Haga often uses a variation of the Japanese copper-sulfate mixture rokusho. Haga actually has a recipe to make it at home-but doesn't, since some of the ingredients aren't easy to come by. They include urine from a copper-reactive person, distilled pure water, grated daikon (a Japanese radish), plum vinegar, and cupric sulfate....." So who here has copper-reactive urine? :D And on Shakudo: "First they immersed the object in boiling lye prepared by smoldering wood ashes. Then they polished it with a charcoal powder and immersed it in plum vinegar containing salt. They washed it with weak lye, placed it in a tub of water to remove any traces of alkali, and immersed it again in a boiled solution of cupric sulfate, water, and verdigris [a greenish crystalline substance that forms on copper-bearing metals] until the purple-black patina was achieved." There are a number of variations of red in there..which relates to the original question. Regards, Brian

Yes..Shinsakuto is the term for modern made true Nihonto. But you should know that the limited supply, intense study and qualifications necessary to produce them..makes them fairly expensive. It is quite normal to pay anything from $10,000 up to $100,000 for a modern Shinsakuto. You can check Aoi Art's website and others in the links above to see some examples. A reasonable older blade, out of polish, can run you from $500 up to any amount you want to spend. If you buy..then buy from a trusted dealer or collector. As an example..there is/was a wakizashi blade in the for sale section without mounts running under $500. That is a good deal if you are just starting out. Buy books and read as much as you can, and it will all fall into place. Btw..you can click on your profile in the links above and add your name in your signature there..or just sign your posts at the bottom with a name and initial. Regards, Brian R.

Pete, Excellent summary, and very helpful. Thanks for sharing. Brian

Hi. I moved this to general discussion for now, as the swords you are talking about are not traditionally made Nihonto, and are not made in Japan. As per the forum rules, please could you sign your posts with your name and initial..it is easier than calling you 4evaluv You can add it in your profile if you like. The info you are asking about would require an entire book to even start, but basically Nihonto are only traditionally made Japanese swords, forged from tamagahane steel and tempered traditionally. The first sword in your post is a Chinese repro, and the Paul Chen swords are one of the better known Chinese companies making modern copies of Japanese swords. The Chen swords are better than most of the thousands of fake swords out there, but are not Nihonto. They are sometimes used for martial arts or cutting practice. I would suggest reading some of the above links at the top of the forum. The fake swords link will give you a good background, and the other links there have some very good info. There is just too much to answer easily here. As for what makes a good Nihonto..that is a huge topic too. It comes down to the skill of the maker, the quality of the forging, the sugata (shape), and many other aspects. Only by looking at some genuine swords can you start to see some of the finer intricacies involved in them. I would recommend reading a bit through this site: http://home.earthlink.net/%7Esteinrl/nihonto.htm Dr Stein runs one of the best sites on Nihonto on the net, and many of your questions will be answered there. Another great site is at: http://www.hi-net.zaq.ne.jp/osaru/e_index.htm Before you purchase a real Nihonto...it should be after a lot of reading and purchasing of books on the subject. There are some good introductions in the suggested reading link above, and books are a good investment before you jump into an expensive purchase. And remember well....99.9% of the swords on ebay out of China are fakes, and a good many of the ones out of other countries. It it seems too good to be true..it is. Rather seek advice here before you jump into an expensive purchase that might cost you dearly. Regards, Brian

:D I think someone else on this board just posted how they also won a sword by bidding in $'s instead of £'s. Must happen often. Brian

I would be interested in comments about this too. Not that it would save this one. An otherwise nice waki that would have polished well. But now it serves as a good reminder that cheap is not always cheap Hides nicely under the habaki, but is glaringly obvious on both sides without it. Some swords are nice enough that they remain good items in a collection in spite of hagire, but this one doesn't make it that far. Anyways..sorry to hijack Milt's thread. Brian

Wang, Great post, and very thought provoking. This kind of scientific testing is already happening in other aspects of the art world, so I guess it is entirely reasonable to think it may oneday become the norm in Nihonto collecting. I think you would have to have good contacts and finances to have access to these tests, but as time goes by, this will change. Can you imagine in 100 years..where each sword will come with NBTHK and laboratory papers? :D Brian

Grey is a longtime collector and member of the JSSUS, so there is no chance he would be fooled by these fakes, but David is correct...the vast majority of people out there have no idea what a Japanese sword looks like, so when they see these with "Japanese writing" on the blade, they assume they are correct. I have some doubts that some of the fakers know what a real Nihonto looks like. These small factories just churn them out by the hundreds at a cost of a few $'s and probably don't bother trying to research what a real sword looks like. They don't sit on the net and research how to make them better. I bet they are made for under $5. Once you know that a Chinese Tokarev pistol costs us (distributor) under $40...then you have an idea how cheap these swords must be to make. So basically as long as they sell...the Chinese will make them. And I guess by not copying the real thing exactly..they are also able to say they were not made to deceive :? I am not sure when they started producing them, but it may have started shortly after the war..or maybe as recently as the 80's. Maybe they were originally intended as "pretty" wallhangers...but when people started buying them as the real thing..it just grew from there. I have seen some of these come out of collections that were built before eBay was popular...so I don't think they were made for the eBay market. These in the pics are the bottom of the barrel...but we have seen the other factories that are seeing the possibilities and improving their fakes. Brian

You do have the private message function on this board too Just click the PM button below their name, and send it as a normal private message. Easy, no? I don't have a problem with emails being posted, but I think the owner of the email might have a problem with his email being posted publicly, so let's use the pm function if there is any doubt at all. Brian

Wow. A year before I was born :D Doesn't that just make some of you feel old? Lol. Of course, we should save our receipts nowdays too. In 30 years we will be looking back and saying "Geez..look what I paid for that wakizashi back then!" No doubt those were the real "good old days"...before many had the collecting bug, and they were really undervalued. Thanks for that "look back in time" Stephen. Makes me wish I had discovered Nihonto earlier..but also reminds me it is never too late to add new items to the collection. Brian

Very true..and remember that late Koto mass produced is not as good as early Shinto. Once of the hard things for me to do was to get over the common thoughts that "older is better" and start looking at the workmanship in each blade individually. I would prefer healthy Shinshinto anydays over a worn out and tired Koto. You did good mate! You bought at a good price from a forum member..and had it pass shinsa with a good result. Nothing to regret. Brian

Stephen and David.. Looks like you 2 are now officially in charge of the NMB culture and refined thinking. :D Don't let the rest of us Neanderthals get to you. Most of us are still worth saving :D Brian

Good work folks. We can't shut down all the scam or fraud sales, but with the collective observation powers of the members, we can at least make a dent. Let's hope it was pulled before anyone got caught. Keep it up Brian

LOL! If I use that here...I may just get lynched. And no worries about the OT...this is why I created General Chat so we have a place to talk nonsense (within limits) and keep it away from the serious Nihonto chat Brian

IIRC..something about a game played by men with funny shaped balls :D Brian