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 Post subject: pre ww2 japanese sword? need help with dating and mei
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Chu Jo Saku

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:42 pm
Posts: 39
Hello,

I have this sword, a bit strange, it seems like someone turned it to look like an edo koshirae, the hanger or hangers are removed from the scabbard maybe and has old edo tsuba, the rest is military type, the scabbard is sharkskin covered, imitated, but the decorations are strange for me, as far I know the kashira has no double flower decoration usualy, also the rest is unusual for me, the flower is a police sword emblem yet looks like a naval sword?
I have a mei translation of SEKIDO TERU HIDE
KASUGA DAIMYOUJIN, but can not translate the dating, can someone help me out here please?
Thanks in advance
Regards
Peter G.


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 Post subject: Re: pre ww2 japanese sword? need help with dating and mei
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 1:22 pm 
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Oyabun
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Location: Stranded in Iowa, looking for a winter rental
http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/teruhide.htm

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 Post subject: Re: pre ww2 japanese sword? need help with dating and mei
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Jo Jo Saku

Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:13 pm
Posts: 396
Location: East US
The mei is usually read "Ishido Teruhide"; although I've seen some folks translate it as Sekido.
Can't help with the date; looks a bit unusual. Here's my webpage on him.

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/teruhide.htm

I have a sword by him mounted in Showa era civilian mounts. Good sword, I used it
for iaido practice for years.

Hope this helps. I'm sure others will get the date or whatever it is (not sure it is a date, maybe
something about the sword or where and what circumstances it was made??).

Rich S

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The Japanese Sword Index
http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm

"Never go anywhere without a knife"
- Leroy Jethro Gibbs (Rule #9)


Last edited by Rich S on Sun May 06, 2012 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: pre ww2 japanese sword? need help with dating and mei
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 1:40 pm 
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Jo Jo Saku

Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:37 am
Posts: 269
By date you mean that second photo? Are you sure that is a date?

Kasuga can be a name or place (e.g. a city in Fukuoka prefecture or a larger Shinto shrine in Nara) and Daimonjin might be a name or title...

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Tobias H.


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 Post subject: Re: pre ww2 japanese sword? need help with dating and mei
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 1:59 pm 
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Jo Jo Saku
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:10 am
Posts: 374
Location: Finland
There is no date; the mei reads: Ishido Teruhide tsukuru kore,
and the ura side reads: Kasuga Daimyojin

Like Tobias said, Kasuga is a shrine.
http://www.gensem.info/locations/Kasugakofukuji/Kasugakofukuji02.html

http://ojisanjake.blogspot.com/2011/03/east-well-shrine.html:
"Daimyojin means "great Shining Deity" and is an appelation applied to many kami, eg Kasuga Daimyojin, Inari Daimyojin, etc. Myoken, like many gods and kami in Japan has a long and complex history, but is a primarily known in its esoteric buddhist form as the god of the Pole Star and Big Dipper."

Veli

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 Post subject: Re: pre ww2 japanese sword? need help with dating and mei
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:13 am 
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Jo Jo Saku

Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:37 am
Posts: 269
Hmmm... I thought as much.

But what does that mean? Was this sword made for the shrine, or as an offering for that god? Or was it made to give the wielder that god's protection? But if it was an offering, why was it turned into a gunto?

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 Post subject: Re: pre ww2 japanese sword? need help with dating and mei
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:29 am 
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Tokubetsu Juyo
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Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 2:53 am
Posts: 3877
Location: The driftless area of WI, USA
It is like a prayer to protect the owner of the sword...Any pictures of the rest of the blade?

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http://www.ejapaneseswords.com


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 Post subject: Re: pre ww2 japanese sword? need help with dating and mei
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:50 am 
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Jo Saku

Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:50 pm
Posts: 119
Location: Sweden
And straight off to ebay...


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 Post subject: Re: pre ww2 japanese sword? need help with dating and mei
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:17 am 
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Chu Jo Saku

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:42 pm
Posts: 39
Hello, more pictures can be found on ebay, I do not collect or deal with ww2 swords often so I am curious what they will think of it on ebay. The item number is: 180876567677 , you can see more pictures also.
I was told by someone else it was for the shrine so I go this way.
thanks to all
regards
Peter G.


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 Post subject: Re: pre ww2 japanese sword? need help with dating and mei
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Tokubetsu Juyo
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Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 2:53 am
Posts: 3877
Location: The driftless area of WI, USA
Petersan wrote:
Hello, more pictures can be found on ebay, I do not collect or deal with ww2 swords often so I am curious what they will think of it on ebay. The item number is: 180876567677 , you can see more pictures also.
I was told by someone else it was for the shrine so I go this way.
thanks to all
regards
Peter G.



If it was actually made for a shrine, it would have said so. Instead, it is a rather common prayer phrase, as said above...Additionally, it is in military issue mounts- it was clearly in military service. Claiming it was made for a shrine or given to a shrine is false and misleading. You could have done a little more research and found that what you have been told is correct but instead simply choose the explanation based entirely on what might make you more money on a sale... Doesn't show much character on your part. I hope someone reports this to Ebay.

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 Post subject: Re: pre ww2 japanese sword? need help with dating and mei
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Oyabun
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Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:22 pm
Posts: 3187
Location: Stranded in Iowa, looking for a winter rental
Maybe should be moved here,
viewforum.php?f=3, or for sale section, Peter did you ask Dr Stein if you could use his link?
Price took a nice jump this AM...guess this is working in your favor.

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Stephen

Life is like setting sail on a ship that is going out to sea to sink.

Suzuki Roshi


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 Post subject: Re: pre ww2 japanese sword? need help with dating and mei
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:08 pm 
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Jo Jo Saku

Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:13 pm
Posts: 396
Location: East US
Peter -

Please remove the link to my website from your ebay page. My site is non-commercial and not
for use of any ebay or other auctions for personal gain. There is an entire page warning sellers NOT to use material from my site on ebay or other auction sites. Links like that use up a lot of my very limited bandwidth. The linked page has been removed until after the auction to save bandwidth.
Rich S

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The Japanese Sword Index
http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm

"Never go anywhere without a knife"
- Leroy Jethro Gibbs (Rule #9)


Last edited by Rich S on Mon May 07, 2012 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: pre ww2 japanese sword? need help with dating and mei
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:07 pm 
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Chu Jo Saku

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:42 pm
Posts: 39
I would like to comment to your comments:

1., And straight off to ebay...

And what is wrong if I sell it on ebay? If there is something bothering you about it please let me know in details, ok ?

2.,Claiming it was made for a shrine or given to a shrine is false and misleading. You could have done a little more research and found that what you have been told is correct but instead simply choose the explanation based entirely on what might make you more money on a sale... Doesn't show much character on your part. I hope someone reports this to Ebay

First, I did ask your superior knowlegde, some said they could not translate the dating , others said it is mentioning the name of a shrine, you are the first one just now telling it is a prayer and claiming I am a liar for more profit and should be reported to ebay like a common chinese thief. I was told it is saying that, also asked all of you,I only wrote what I was told, do not ever call me a liar, ok?

3., Please remove the link to my website from your ebay page.

I was given this link on this forum, I did not see the warning message that I can not use it, therefore I am sorry, I can not remove the link from ebay as there are bids already and ebay does not allow me to edit the description only to add, I added a note not to use that link, that is all I could do.

It seems there is a lot of sour mouthed people on this server acting God and calling people rubbish and keep talking about my money



At


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 Post subject: Re: pre ww2 japanese sword? need help with dating and mei
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:26 pm
Posts: 6064
Location: South Africa
Peter,
If you had spent much time on this forum, you will know how rude it is to ask for help without mentioning you are going to use it for commercial purposes.
At least mention you are going to be selling the sword. To ask for a free translation and accept people's help and time...and then almost immediately list it for sale with that info isn't great conduct.
Accept that or not...your choice. A lot of people put a great deal of effort into helping people appreciate and collect Nihonto. If you want to take advantage of that, mention your intentions or be seen as taking advantage.
You are welcome to stick around and be part of the community here...and if you hope for future assistance it is always wise to take the advice I am giving to heart.
Btw..if you contact eBay and mention you need to remove the link, I think they will assist.

Brian

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 Post subject: Re: pre ww2 japanese sword? need help with dating and mei
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:30 pm 
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Jo Saku

Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:50 pm
Posts: 119
Location: Sweden
Peter nothing wrong with selling on ebay. Just keep in mind people on this board taking their time to help people like you and me and I think they want to know if the person asking for help does so because of an interest to learn more about nihonto or just gathering info that will be used for profit. I believe people would still help you even if you should tell them your intention is to sell but the thing is be open and honest about it.
Kind Regards
Daniel


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