Please help

Dear all,

I try to improve my Mei translation knowledge (with very little sucess) - mainly on Gedai´s. I found this blade on the web (no plan to buy it), but to be honest, I have absolutely no idea. Even if the signs look like very clear

Therefore I would kindly ask for your help.

Many thanks in advance

I think this auction is still in progress...maybe to be fair to those who are bidding we should wait until the sale is over before we discuss this?

Just a thought.

George

I think this auction is still in progress...maybe to be fair to those who are bidding we should wait until the sale is over before we discuss this?

Just a thought.

George

Yes of course - sorry for that. In the meantime I will further try to read the Mei

Hi,

A hint for you. :lol:

A place name and a pen-name/art-name instead of a smith-name are carved on the tang.

I do not know at all who this-pen-name/art-name is.

Hi,

 

A hint for you. :lol:

A place name and a pen-name/art-name instead of a smith-name are carved on the tang.

I do not know at all who this-pen-name/art-name is.

Dear Morita-san, Dear all,

Many thanks for your hints. I spend several hours, but all my "findings" made no sense (even Greys Kanji Cards did not help )

As the auction is over now, I would kindly ask for your help. If you think, that this auction will come up again - maybe you can send my a PM with the translation?!

many thanks

Klaus

Hi,

Please point out the link for me ?

ebay?

Well since it is over I suppose it is a legitimate question now.

It is a hard one and I am not sure of some kanji and I'm not sure I'm right, but I think it says:

? ? ni oite, Daitoto Ju Nin Masanaga Kore o ?....The left column I can't make out.

This Masanaga is Kunishima Masanaga, student of Fujiyasu Masahira student of Miyairi Akihira.

Probably a nice sword, but not very interesting in the hamon IMHO.

Morita san, this line is given in "Nihon Gendaito Shoshi" by Uchiyama (Token Bijutsu) #498 page 5 and also in "Mod. Jap. Sw. and Sw/smiths 1868- present" Kapp & Yoshihara p.207.

Or maybe I'm totally wrong.

George.

Here is my guess:

於南信州大東都住人瀞水造之

Oite Minami Shinshu Dai Toto ju Nin Shosui tsukuru kore

Great!!

Chris san is correct.

But,I do not know who's the art-name (Josui or Shosui).

Chris, I can see Minami Shinshu and tsukuru now...any info on Shosui?....I can't find anything.

Maybe an art name for Masanaga...or?

Geo.

............

But,I do not know who's the art-name (Josui or Shosui).

Or it reads Seisui, maybe?

Moriyama san,

Yes, also reads "Seisui".

Sorry to be a bother, but it was paint the house or play with the nihonto books...so,

As I mentioned initially, there was a Fujiyasu Masahira who was a student of Miyairi Akihira. This "Masa" can also be read as "Kiyo". If you look at Hawley (yes I know, sorry to mention his name), but he has a KIYOHIRA KIY 74 using the "usual" Kiyo. I think he is connected with the "Masahira" I mentioned from Uchiyama and Kapp/Yoshihara (perhaps they were students of Akihira together?).

Kiyohira is listed as Shinano/Nagano 1956-73...signed "SHINANO KUNI JU MIYAIRI KIYOHIRA SAKU KORE" and is illustrated in TK 155-156.

I know the KIYO is different, but the rest points to this man also being connected to Akihira'a other student Fujiyasu Masahira. The reference to Kunishima Masanaga (student of Masahira) found in Uchiyama and Kapp/Yoshihara points to this man also in the thread IMHO. He used the first kanji of Fujiyasu Kiyo/Masahira. See also Gendai Toko Meikan p.98.

Just a possibility...

Geo.

Edit: This is just too complicated...I was just reading the Miyairi School link above and it mentions these men...except Kunishima Masanaga. A site called thejapanesesword.com mentions Fujiyasu Masahira and Kunishima Masanaga together, but Masanaga's details are not yet uploaded...so, over to you guys. I think I must be wrong here and Seisui and Masanaga are different men.

Sorry.

Geo..

I will check my sources for info on Shosui/Seisui. The whole family has been sick with nasty colds since we returned from Japan so I have a lot to catch up on first....

Hi,

 

Please point out the link for me ?

ebay?

this is/was the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... &viewitem=

Now I know why I could not "read" this signature. The only sign I found out was "Kore".

I also tried to compare this Mei with all signatures from John Slough´s book but....... for me this Mei will never ever readable.

To be honest, this discussion is to high for me

Many thanks

Klaus

this is/was the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... &viewitem=

 

Now I know why I could not "read" this signature. The only sign I found out was "Kore".

I also tried to compare this Mei with all signatures from John Slough´s book but....... for me this Mei will never ever readable.

To be honest, this discussion is to high for me

 

Many thanks

Klaus

Klaus san,

don't be discouraged...some of these signatures are difficult for everyone...do not think you will never succeed in reading them...we all started the same way. Also, the "deep" discussion only occurred because none of us have heard of a Shosui/Seisui name swordsmith...we too have come to a dead end...almost. As a point of interest, I think the makers information may be in the hard to read left-hand column, which seems to be sosho script...I think I have worked out the maker's name, but need further examination.

This sword failed to sell on ebay (did not reach reserve), so I asked the seller what his reserve was, and as the sword seems a nice example of a gendaito, in good condition with an interesting mei, the seller and I came to an agreement a few weeks later, and as a result, I bought this sword. When it arrives I will examine the mei very closely and will report back my findings...(or ask for further help myself)

Regards,

George.

George san,

Wow you bought it.

Please up-load clearer images when the sword arrives.

I can't wait. :D

Kiyoshi san,

Yes, I will post clear pics when it arrives for sure...I was lucky to get it...I took the chance to buy it as the sword looks like a good gendaito. I can't wait to check it up close as I think some information on the tosho may be in the sosho script. I have a good book on reading sosho, but I think I will need your help.

Genki de,

George.

 

this is/was the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... &viewitem=

 

Hope this link still works...well, thanks to Klaus posting this query, I ended up acquiring this sword after the auction finished. I have had it a week and studied it carefully, with input gratefully received from Morita san and Chris Bowen. As promised, here are the findings re maker, translations etc.

First, the Reisho mei reads "Oite Minami ShinShu DaiToTo JuNin ShoSui (also Seisui, Josui) Saku Kore" meaning "Shosui, a resident of Tokyo, made this at Southern Nagano-ken". None of us know who the "Ga-go" (art name) Shosui refers to, so the tosho is at present unknown.

The LH Sosho column is "Ippo susu-mi-te tsuki, ippo susu-mi-te, tatsu" meaning "One step forward, stab, one step forward, cut"...probably a kendo-ryu kata? I think the man who had this made was a trained swordsman and the kata reflects both his Ryu technique and his spirit.

Sword is a copy of a Sue-Seki Mino-den uchigatana of the Sengoku jidai wars...of the type made by Kanesada and Kanetsune.

Nagasa 24 7/16" - 62.1 cm. Motohaba 1 1/4" - 3.25 cm kasane 5/8" - 8mm, Sakihaba 25/32" - 2.0cm kasane 7/16" - 6mm.

Dense itame/mokume...hamon of Nioi of long yakidashi, togari of mild sanbonsugi becoming low gonome in monouchi. Boshi ko-maru with tome.

Nakago ha-agari-kurijiri with yasuri of Kiri on hira, sujikai on shinogi. 2 ana. dated Dec 1944.

Type 3 special order gunto mounts, nickel plated metal fittings (except fuchi) and gangi maki wrap to tsuka.

IMHO an excellent fighting uchigatana based on those of the sengoku Mino/Seki makers. Probably made and mounted to specific order by a trained swordsman IMHO. This is the first Seki type sword I have acquired.

If anyone knows of any connection to this workstyle or mei, please let me know.

Regards,

George.