Very Strange and Uncommon Tsuba

[Curgan]

I have found this tsuba in a website. It stroke me as very peculiar the fact that it has european letters engraved on it. They are capital letters on one side and "handwritting" (?) style on the other. I couldn't decipher them, so I came to think it might be Japanese text written with the latin alphabet.

I don't think this was a common practice, but I do think that it might sparkle a most interesting topic and might revive the old "western influence" thread....

[jason_mazzy]

looks like a converted kendo medal to me. Very artistic!

[sanjuro]

Artistic?.. Perhaps in the sense of Namban gone mad ? Sorry Jason, just an alternative opinion....It appears to be a parody of Latin which would have been used by the Jesuits. The 'handwriting' on the reverse also seems to be some sort of parody of european writing, perhaps done by someone who spoke little or nothing in terms of European languages.

Is this 18th century work?

[Curgan]

It had no info besides the attached certificate in Japanese....

[IanB]

Curgan, I think the side with the capitals is rather more than just groups of random lettering. If you look, the letters form sound groups: NA NE NI NOE-TA TE TI TO-MA ME MI etc. The combined OE is apparently a 'grapheme' which Wikipedia says was used in English and French and in modern phonetics to represent a kind of 'ur' sound as in the French for sister 'soeur'. This suggests to me the text has been copied from some European lexicon that listed Japanese sounds. Possibly Dutch but it could have been compiled by the English. If you have a table of hiragana you will find them listed in the same sort of groupings. The cursive on the back seems less well copied. Presumably because the decorator was working from a European document in some kind of running hand and he couldn't make out individual letters. Whatever, a very interesting item. Thank you for showing it.

Ian Bottomley

[sanjuro]

Ian

 

In furtherance of your thought, if one speaks these phonetics aloud, they sound mantra-like. Could this be a Buddhist mantra? Also, what is the design above and below the nakago ana supposed to represent?

[IanB]

Keith, Obviously the decoration above and below the seppa dai are plant forms - orchids maybe?

Ian

[Stephen]

decoration above and below the seppa dai are plant forms - orchids maybe?

 

Seen something like it on coins, un peso? Hope Ted T takes a look hes a coin guy.

[Marc BROQUIN]

Hello all :D ,

 

Just perhaps a suggestion related to the writing of MA ME MI MO...

 

It seems to be written in dutch language. :D

 

We used in the past to learn to little children how to write the different pronounciations of these letter combinations;

 

In french MA, ME, MI, MO, MU in order to give the different sounds with the different wovels.

 

But in dutch OE has the sound of OU in french or OO in english such as in WOOD.

 

So as far as Dutch people replaced the Portuguese with the time in Japan, it seems quite possible to see here a dutch impact.

 

Friendly. :D

 

Marc

[christianmalterre]

Dear Marc,

 

this is an Namban Tsuba with strong Nagasaki artists expression.

The characters you speak and which are shown in "latinised" letters come from the Japanese prononciation of certain Kuden in traditional Ryu.

This Tsuba was intended for someone not native Japanese but member or at least knowing some facts of the called Ryu.

This was partially common and this tradition is also depicted in certain literature.

If you do need further info please feel to contact me directly.

Either way-not typical and quite uncommon but not totally strange.

 

Christian Malterre

[Curgan]

Can you decipher more of their meanining Christian?

[docliss]

John’s tsuba demonstrates a strong namban influence, and is an interesting variation on that group normally identified with Hirado Kunishige work. These latter tsuba are normally of brass, tate-maru-gata and with a square, raised rim; some are of iron, however, and they are normally signed. The Roman letters stamped around the edge are described as ‘meaningless and used solely as a decoration’, and the recognition by Ian, Marc and Christian that those on John’s example have a relevance is a very interesting one.

 

John L.

[george trotter]

An interesting tsuba. I have had a fair bit of experience with 15th-18th century legal and historical records for Scotland and England, and I have to say that although I can't read the cursive script around the rim, I would not dismiss it as a look-alike attempt at a European language by someone unfamiliar with it. Some of the English/Scottish/Latin script documents look just like this, at first glance incomprehensible, but with study appear as recognizeable components of language. This may be from Dutch, so if you want to seek further, it might be wise to call up some Dutch historical document links for the 17th century, or earlier, and compare styles and meanings...if it is a cursive rendition of that series in capitals, it will be just be the same series of sounds.

Regards,

George.

[chi fan wong]

seems like just the romanization of Japanese vowels.

a - i - u - e - o

ka - ki - ku - ke - ko

ma - mi - mu - me - mo

.......

and so on.

[IanB]

John, Note that in this case the text is done in gin zogan and the plant motif in kin and gin zogan. George, I too have struggled with early 17th C 'Secretary Hand' and similar scripts so I know just exactly what you mean. Makes Champollion's work with Egyptian hieroglyphs look like child's play .

Ian B

[Curgan]

George, I too have struggled with early 17th C 'Secretary Hand' and similar scripts so I know just exactly what you mean. Makes Champollion's work with Egyptian hieroglyphs look like child's play .

Ian B

 

I am still dealing with 20th c handwritting as part of my proffession and I do not think highly of that frenchman either....

[Soshin]

Ian

 

In furtherance of your thought, if one speaks these phonetics aloud, they sound mantra-like. Could this be a Buddhist mantra? Also, what is the design above and below the nakago ana supposed to represent?

 

Generally the practice of writing Buddhist mantras in Roman characters is a fairly recent practice started in the middle to late 20th century with the spread of the religion/philosophy into regions not traditional Buddhist (i.e. Western Europe and America). Having the mantras written with Roman characters greatly helps the western Buddhist not familiar with written Japanese to recite the mantras. Also generally speaking Buddhist mantras that were transliterated into Japanese from Chinese or Sanskrit start with a On (Sanskrit Om) or Namu (Sanskrit Namo).

The use of Romanji (writing the Japanese language with Roman letters) was very popular during the Meiji period. The Meiji government even considered changing the official Japanese language to only use Roman letters. This never happen because it quickly became apparent that the Japanese language has too many homophones that can only be distinguished by their Kanji reading. The interesting Namban tsuba in questions looks likely made during the Meiji period and I would consider adding it to my collection if given a chance. Thanks for starting a discussion of such a interesting Namban tsuba.

 

Yours truly,

David S. (Soshin)