Shira, Saya

[Joel Lundqvist]

I don't know and I can't find, I'm so green so I think I miss obvious things, hope somebody will fill in my blank spot, what material(type of wood) is a Shira Saya made from or is it more than one wood used and then why? Very thankful if anybody know this for me. 

[Scogg]

Hi @Joel Lundqvist

I'm going to relocate your topic to the "General Nihonto Related Discussion" section. I think you will get better input over there.

It's my understanding that Honoki (magnolia) is commonly used, but i'm no expert.
-Sam

[Joel Lundqvist]

Thank you

[Tensho]

Honoki, which is a Japanese magnolia. I've heard of people using basswood, alder and poplar in the U.S at least for saya and tsuka. 

Edited July 10 by Tensho

[John C]

As others have said, honoki is most common in Japan as it is readily available, light weight, straight grain, and easy to carve. Any wood can be used, as long as it is either low acidic (never use oak, for example) or has been air dried for a few years. Kiln dried wood, which is popular in big-box stores, concentrates the tannic acid and could lead to rust production as it reacts with metal. 

I tend to use poplar or cherry that has been air dried for 5 years because honoki is virtually impossible to get here.

 

John C.

[Grey Doffin]

I had never heard that about air dry versus kiln dry and acid content. I asked google and google says,

"Air-dried and kiln-dried oak generally contain the same total amount of inherent tannic acid. However, air-dried oak has a higher overall moisture content. Because tannic acid requires moisture to dissolve and become active, air-dried oak tends to be more chemically active and corrosive to fasteners than drier kiln-dried wood."

I'd stay away from any wood with significant acid content, no matter how it is dried.

Grey

[John C]

Google is incorrect. The tannic acid dissipates over time through off-gassing. While this happens faster with kiln dried wood due to 6% moisture content, the concentration is higher and therefore more deleterious to metal.

 

Personally, I don't worry too much about it. Unless the sword is never cleaned or maintained, it should not be a problem.

 

John C.

[Joel Lundqvist]

Thank you everybody for the information, yes I was thinking that some wood is better for the swords and people that make effort making a sword not only use the easiest material to carv in, it's more into this than I knew, I will lern more and more overall, thank you for your answers, 

[Joel Lundqvist]

9 hours ago, John C said:

As others have said, honoki is most common in Japan as it is readily available, light weight, straight grain, and easy to carve. Any wood can be used, as long as it is either low acidic (never use oak, for example) or has been air dried for a few years. Kiln dried wood, which is popular in big-box stores, concentrates the tannic acid and could lead to rust production as it reacts with metal. 

I tend to use poplar or cherry that has been air dried for 5 years because honoki is virtually impossible to get here.

 

John C.

I have dried apple tree from when I cut down the old apple tree, I think it's, about same strukture as cherry, 

[John C]

4 hours ago, Joel Lundqvist said:

I have dried apple tree from when I cut down the old apple tree, I think it's, about same strukture as cherry, 

Should be no problem, however two cautions: First, it will be a harder wood so If carving by hand, be prepared to sharpen the gouges often. Second, if the tree is still whole, you will need to cut the planks and let them finish drying to avoid movement, shrinkage, and tension release after it is carved to final shape.

 

John C.

[Joel Lundqvist]

12 minutes ago, John C said:

Should be no problem, however two cautions: First, it will be a harder wood so If carving by hand, be prepared to sharpen the gouges often. Second, if the tree is still whole, you will need to cut the planks and let them finish drying to avoid movement, shrinkage, and tension release after it is carved to final shape.

 

John C.

It have been cut to boards and planks already, it was more than 8 year ago I take the old tree down, yes I know it's hard but time is on my side. 

[Grey Doffin]

Hi guys,

Not knowing the answer to the acid content by type of wood drying question, I wrote to the US Forest Products Lab in Madison Wisconsin. I summed up the discussion here and linked to this thread. I ended with this question, "Does the acid content differ between air and kiln dried wood of the same species and does the acid disipate over time if the wood is air dried but become concentrated if kiln dried?" The answer just came in:

Thanks for the question. Higher temperature drying shifts in pH are generally permanent. Heat effects the hemicelluloses and releases acetic and other acids which lowers the pH of the wood. This can also vary considerably between wood species. As you mentioned, Japanese Magnolia is fairly mild with regards to pH (neutral to slightly basic), so corrosion concerns are less than more acidic species (oak, cherry, walnut - contain acids that react with metals) and softwood species- resin acids, but these volatilize during drying so less of a concern, but still can be corrosive). Hope this helps and let us know if we can provide any additional information.

Sincerely,

 

Grant Kirker, Ph.D. Research Forest Products Technologist

Forest Service Forest Products Laboratory | Wood Durability and Protection My understanding of the answer tells me that kiln drying can lower the acid content of the wood but it is best to stick with low or no acid species. Grey

 

[Brian]

Grey, please extend out thanks to Mr Kirker

[ROKUJURO]

On 7/11/2026 at 4:10 PM, Joel Lundqvist said:

It has been cut to boards and planks already, it was more than 8 year ago I took the old tree down, yes I know it's hard but time is on my side. 

Joel,

working with old apple wood is no fun, and it will get still harder with age!

In case you want to make a SHIRA SAYA yourself, be sure to watch the respective YouTube videos available
 

or learn otherwise before you start. And be sure to NEVER USE SAND-PAPER or similar!

[John C]

7 hours ago, Grey Doffin said:

kiln drying can lower the acid content of the wood but it is best to stick with low or no acid species.

The article I read (Corrosion of Metals by Wood, National Physical Laboratory in England) had a different conclusion, however studies due differ depending on how they are conducted. I suspect the NPL was incorrect in its conclusion (see the first bullet point).

 

John C.

 

[Joel Lundqvist]

8 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

Joel,

working with old apple wood is no fun, and it will get still harder with age!

In case you want to make a SHIRA SAYA yourself, be sure to watch the respective YouTube videos available
 

or learn otherwise before you start. And be sure to NEVER USE SAND-PAPER or similar!

Thank you

 

[Joel Lundqvist]

On 7/28/2026 at 7:20 PM, Grey Doffin said:

Hi guys,

Not knowing the answer to the acid content by type of wood drying question, I wrote to the US Forest Products Lab in Madison Wisconsin. I summed up the discussion here and linked to this thread. I ended with this question, "Does the acid content differ between air and kiln dried wood of the same species and does the acid disipate over time if the wood is air dried but become concentrated if kiln dried?" The answer just came in:

Thanks for the question. Higher temperature drying shifts in pH are generally permanent. Heat effects the hemicelluloses and releases acetic and other acids which lowers the pH of the wood. This can also vary considerably between wood species. As you mentioned, Japanese Magnolia is fairly mild with regards to pH (neutral to slightly basic), so corrosion concerns are less than more acidic species (oak, cherry, walnut - contain acids that react with metals) and softwood species- resin acids, but these volatilize during drying so less of a concern, but still can be corrosive). Hope this helps and let us know if we can provide any additional information.

Sincerely,

 

Grant Kirker, Ph.D. Research Forest Products Technologist

Forest Service Forest Products Laboratory | Wood Durability and Protection My understanding of the answer tells me that kiln drying can lower the acid content of the wood but it is best to stick with low or no acid species. Grey

 

Thank you that make it clear about why magnolia is used and what to prefere,