Advice On Finding a Polisher

[willy_1]

Hello all, 

 

I am new to nmb and a novice collector, so please correct me on forum etiquette and such. I'm still reading up on many nihonto topics, and actively trying to find a top notch polisher to polish my very old katana. The problem I'm facing is that I only understand at a high level what I want to accomplish, and don't have a great idea of how to find a polisher that meets the needs. Can anyone advise on a general process or provide anecdotal experience? 

 

To provide further details on the sword in question, I'm looking to polish my Katana (tachi) Sa-Hiroyuki Mumei. I have detailed information on the sword in the link, but the nutshell version is that it was made circa 1350 as a tachi and shortened to a katana sometime after. The tempering, although exemplary, does not appear to be particularly special. However, I believe this banality to be due the polishing, which seems be hiding some of the work. I was suspicious because all of Sa-Hiroyuki's living works feature more active hamon, and are clearly stunning. You can see in the photos in my link the hamon appears to be notare, but unremarkably so. All descriptions of Sa-Hiroyuki's work I've found usually describe his hamons as exceptionally bright and clear. Additionally, the hamon may not even be notare! Looking closely at the grain patterns, I see very faint hints of a more hitatsura and/or choji pattern. I also found a record of these shortened Sa-Hiroyuki, tachi mumei swords which suggests they typically have a more active hamon (can be found in my link, also attached to post). I did have a local expert take a look and he agreed. He also mentioned it might be worth sending in for juyo consideration after a REALLY good polish. He suggested Yoshindo Takaiwa, but upon researching I found he is a living legend (and author of a popular polishing book) and I have no idea how to reach him. Short of him, I don't know how to identify a polisher who's expertise align with the needs of the polish. I'm willing to wait many years, I'm in no rush! I'm aware of some of the basics in different polishing styles, but I'm not even sure if I'm the one who needs to make the choice between, for instance, Sashikomi and Kesho. Any guidance, links, books, anecdotes, etc. are appreciated. I'd love to uncover the hidden historical art in this sword if there's any to uncover! 

Edited Thursday at 05:01 AM by willy_1

[eternal_newbie]

On the English-speaking side, Andrew Ickeringill is a polisher who has won awards in Japan and polished many Juyo and TokuJu-level blades, including some by Go Yoshihiro. You can view examples of his work and find his contact details at his website: https://touken-togishi.com/

 

Unless you are a purist who only likes one specific polishing style, it's generally best to let the polisher decide, or at least suggest, what kind of polish would suit the blade's style and activities best; sometimes they may leave the decision to you when it could go either way (e.g. if both the jigane and hamon are excellent, you might need to choose between highlighting one or the other, or somewhere in between).

[Sukaira]

You should consult Seiyudo Ginza (next time, ideally before it leaves Japan). They know all the good people and can facilitate this, since I believe you purchased it from them. Unfortunately you'll have to take the sword back into Japan now, which is best done (in my experience, by flying there yourself with it). Alternatively there are other polishers, Andrew in Australia mentioned above, Moses Becerra  in Florida (nihontoantiques.com) and also the Benson family in Hawaii (togishi.com).

Edited Thursday at 10:16 PM by Sukaira

[Lewis B]

15 minutes ago, Sukaira said:

by flying there yourself with it

Is it that simple? Don’t you have to register the blade to import it which may not be so straightforward for a non Japanese speaker without dealer status?

[Shugyosha]

You could have a chat with Paul Martin who used to be well connected in terms of linking westerners with providers of restoration services for swords and fittings in Japan. Looking at his website, he may have moved on from that but it might not hurt to drop him a line. I've used him for shinsa services in the past and have been very happy with the services recieved. 

 

https://thejapanesesword.com/

[Sukaira]

You can do it at the airport, in fact you have to. But yeah it really is that easy if you can navigate the paperwork. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

4 hours ago, Sukaira said:

You should consult Seiyudo Ginza (next time, ideally before it leaves Japan). They know all the good people and can facilitate this, since I believe you purchased it from them. Unfortunately you'll have to take the sword back into Japan now, which is best done (in my experience, by flying there yourself with it). Alternatively there are other polishers, Andrew in Australia mentioned above, Moses Becerra  in Florida (nihontoantiques.com) and also the Benson family in Hawaii (togishi.com).

 

There are multiple stories of collectors doing just that and being jammed up for hours. The reason some collectors have great success with this method is the prior knowledge and co-ordination with an experienced dealer beforehand, just rocking up to Narita airport with a sword and a prayer is ill-advised. 

[Sukaira]

Yeah it does take some time. In my experience it is the best way though as you can keep your blades in your possession and it’s way faster than them sitting in import limbo. But if you’re more comfortable with shipping, using an agent and them sitting in import warehouses, then that works as well.

[Schneeds]

I'm just a newb, but that polish seems solid as it is.  

[Nihonto student]

Dear Tyler,

 

some considerations:

 

- From the photos, it's clear you purchased the blade from a well-known dealer in Japan. Did you actually go there to purchase it? The dealer has a high reputation, and I doubt they sold you an illegible or poorly polished blade without telling you, or even offering a repolishing service at an additional cost.

If the blade was already in Japan, it would have been worth checking right away.

 

- I don't know who's seen the blade, but it could very well have potential for Juyo. I'd just like to point out that there's a difference between having potential and obtaining certification. To obtain a Juyo certification, compared to previous ones, you need luck as well as excellent quality workmanship. It's not just a matter of requirements or quality. A high-level polish in Japan comes with significant costs, which, objectively speaking, will be difficult to justify if the blade doesn't pass Juyo. Of course, everyone is free to spend their money however they want... always free to spend on the absolute best polish, knowing that in the event of a resale of the blade, that expense will be considered very marginal.

 

- Personally, from the photos, the blade looks more than legible. Could it be better? Possibly... but for now, if I were you, I'd try to show and hear from as many people as possible before embarking on a long and expensive adventure.

 

 

All The Best 

Giordy

[Rivkin]

The usual hedge that its photos, but purposefully pessimistic and direct take - the blade is in full polish and is already rather tired. The polish could be brighter etc., but its rolling a die and there is not a lot on the upside.

Yes, the blade does not sparkle, its grey, its ko nie. Some of it basically its age, some of it - it is not A tier Sa work. 

I've been many times along this road, holding a blade where you see something brilliant if you look there at this angle... and the polish very seldom manages to just accent the right stuff as one envisions and hopes. 

 

Crossing into insulting speculations territory and going even further - it has distinguished history, if it was submitted today without it... possible it would get Bungo Tomoyuki, which is sort of similar suguha based with ko nie Yamato-Soshu-Sa activities and roughish hada... Or Sue Sa.

[Sukaira]

I agree. I thought as well that from the photos it seems like it has been polished down quite a bit already and those welds look ripe for opening up with further polish. It will probably be a bit of a risk to polish it further. That being said, I also don't agree that just because it came from a dealer like Seiyudo that it would be in top polish. I had this exact conversation with Seiyudo a few months ago and they do indeed stock and accept blades that - and I quote (from them) - "arrive in a spectrum of acceptable polish grades, and we do not always want to polish a blade since it wears down the blade more". So it is totally plausible that blade is in fact in not a great state of polish. If you want to see an example from this exact dealer, check my Taikei Naotane polishing post. I purchased that blade from them (Seiyudo) and it was in terrible polish. Moses Becerra polished it and it is now absolutely brilliant. Of course the Naotane was already very healthy and could take the polish without any issues.

Edited Friday at 03:21 PM by Sukaira

[SteveM]

If you are near Southern California, I would recommend taking it to Mike Yamasaki, who can give you good advice on the blade and the polishing process. What I can tell you today is that the blade comes with an appraisal paper (origami) from Hon'ami Kō'on, dated 1662. Kō'on says the blade comes from the Sa lineage (he doesn't specify the exact smith). The blade was already shortened and had lost its signature by this time. Then, in 1953 (maybe January, can't quite tell), Japanese sword scholar Kashima Tsutomu reaffirmed the sword was of the Sa lineage via his own appraisal. Then, in June of that same year, the NBTHK also appraised the sword as coming from the Sa lineage, and gave it a "Precious" designation (one of the designations that predates the Tokubetsu Hozon designation).

 

The current "Sa Hiroyuki" appraisal comes from the latest NBTHK appraisal, dated 2021, in which it received the Tokubetsu Hozon designation. So, no doubt the sword is of the Sa school, but there may not be absolute consensus among the Japanese sword world as to the Hiroyuki appraisal. This may be one reason the sword currently does not have a Jūyō designation.

 

My gut feeling is that if the sword were a super strong candidate for Jūyō, the sword dealer Seiyūdō would have submitted it themselves in order to take advantage of the potential profit that they could have received by selling it as a Jūyō blade. But I am not an expert, and that "gut feeling" is sort of a lazy person's conclusion.

 

[SteveM]

14 hours ago, Sukaira said:

You can do it at the airport, in fact you have to.

 

You can do this if you have an address in Japan, or are using an agent to import (so that the agent can put down his address). But if you are a tourist I don't think you can get the temporary permission slip. 

[Sukaira]

Yeah, my post was with the assumption that he would be working with Seiyudo for the in-person import. I have gone through the airport both ways and they definitely want to know who you are working with. At least they did for me.

 

Some dealers don't go out of their way to submit for Juyo, even if there is profit potential. There are tradeoffs, and one of those is simply they have to lock up the blade for a long period of time with the real potential of profit loss via fees and time if it does not pass. I also spoke to Seiyudo about this in person and in general they are not huge on submitting things to Juyo unless there is a real reason. One example is a Ryokai blade I viewed in March while visiting their store. It was the only blade in the entire store they said they might submit, and when I asked if the price would change, they shrugged and said "maybe, maybe not". So that makes me think they simply price in Juyo if something is good enough at TokuHo and don't bother with submitting most of the time, unless it's a very clear slam dunk, even if it is a Juyo candidate in their eyes.

Edited Friday at 04:19 PM by Sukaira

[willy_1]

Thanks all for the information, what a community! This is exactly what I was hoping to get from more experienced folks and gives me a lot to think about. I failed to mention in the post, but my "local expert" is Ed Konno and Stephen Colton of Japanese Art Swords in Bellevue, WA: https://japaneseartswords.com/. Ed did an appraisal for both of the swords in my collection. Before the appraisal, I was operating under the assumption as  @SteveM. The sword was already obviously beautiful enough for me to buy it. It has a rich history, and Ed agreed on the consensus for the maker attribution, but I'll have to ask him what made him agree. I did go to Ginza Seiyudo in person a number of years ago and saw this sword in person before buying it online back in the states (I also bought my tonto from them in person). They also seemed to strongly agree with the make attribution and I hope they wouldn't just say that for the sale (again, I hope). I also assumed the sword would've come with the best possible polish, and if it were worth sending for juyo consideration then Seiyudo would have done this already. It certainly wasn't priced at juyo. However, I'm learning quickly that even among experts in this field, opinions can contend. Ed was the one who suggested it might be juyo worthy after a polish, and I've been thinking about it for almost a year now. I'm at the point where I'd definitely like to attempt to get it polished again by a touken togishi. Juyo or not I intend to keep this sword in the end, I'm too attached to it. I'm willing to spend the time and money to know whether this sword has more to offer. 

All that said, if I reached out to a polisher, I'm assuming they would assess whether it's worth polishing or not, and whether it's safe to do so. I also imagine they would do their best to make that determination from photos, but I understand that can be challenging and in person evaluation likely has the final say. Not sure how these things usually go. I'm leaning towards reaching out to Andrew Ickeringill as he comes highly recommended by this community. I also like the idea of reaching out to Ginza Seiyudo again. 

One might wonder why I don't go through https://japaneseartswords.com/ to facilitate finding a polisher. Believe me I've tried, but Ed is an interesting guy. He basically told me a cryptic equivalent to "all in good time", and left me with no idea of when or how we would make this happen. It also takes a while to reach him, he very much operates on his own time. I may try to reach out one more time to see if he'd be able and willing to pull the trigger. Ed and Steve are a great resource and very knowledgable--I've learned a lot from them. 

Thanks again to everyone who commented, I greatly appreciate it! 

Edited Friday at 08:53 PM by willy_1

[PNSSHOGUN]

Paul Martin or Robert Hughes would be the better contacts to pursue, they won't give you cryptic responses. 

[MassiveMoonHeh]

I concur with @eternal_newbie you cannot go wrong with @Andrew Ickeringill.

 

I know him to be an incredibly good and reputable individual. He is honest in his reviews and assessments. And his work is without question up there - being awarded Kinshō (Gold Prize) in the annual NBSK sword polishing competition as a westerner, says alot - many Japanese Togishi have not achieved the same.

 

He has also had several swords that he has polished pass Juyo and TokuJu. Will be hard pressed to find a more qualified Togishi. Finally, he has the added advantage of speaking English so there is no lost in translation and it means you can deal direct via email, chat or video call. There are also no issues with bringing swords in and out of Australia, no license requirements etc.

 

Andrew Ickeringill - Touken Togishi - 刀剣研師 | Japanese Sword Restoration Services – Melbourne, Australia https://touken-togishi.com/

 

And a trip to Australia is always well worth it!

[eternal_newbie]

21 hours ago, willy_1 said:

All that said, if I reached out to a polisher, I'm assuming they would assess whether it's worth polishing or not, and whether it's safe to do so. I also imagine they would do their best to make that determination from photos, but I understand that can be challenging and in person evaluation likely has the final say. Not sure how these things usually go.

 

Assuming your polisher is a reputable and reliable sort, this is absolutely the case. They will likely also stress that there is no such thing as a perfectly safe polish (unless it's something very light like a shiage retouch) because even the healthiest looking blade could have a flaw revealed when some metal is removed.

[Jacques]

Never forget that polishing a sword is never harmless, it accelerates wear and tear and can reveal a flaw that might reduce its value. From what I can see, this sword has already been polished many times. It is therefore worth considering whether it needs to be polished again. 

[klee]

I ve sent all my blades to Woody Hall in Hawaii for Shiage togi. His work is exceptional and he has won NBTHK awards for his Polishing. He was trained by Robert Benson who was trained by Koke Ono , a living national treasure. I also know for a fact Mike Yamazaki uses him and speaks highly of him