What do non-Japanese tosogu artisans sign their work with?

[NotANinja]

Apologies if this is a stupid question but I cannot read kanji and know that some western artisans sign them this way, so I am wondering what they say as western names don't translate well into kanji.

[Spartancrest]

Perhaps Gustavo Hoefs could answer this? : He has done several works and adopted one set of Kanji  [グー ] which is pronounced Gū.  This is close to his pseudonym of Goo

However he has had feedback from Japanese and others that leaving his pieces unsigned in anyway is ideal - a view I tend to disagree with. If you are proud of your work why hide it? Also an unsigned modern utsushi just muddies the waters and creates future problems of authenticity and provenance. No one would like their work to be lost or worse, thrown in as some sort of Chinese fake. My opinion is "You make it, you take ownership"  JMHO

Edited Monday at 03:00 AM by Spartancrest

[NotANinja]

Thank you for your reply Dale! Yes I couldn't agree more with your comment about utsushi - especially if it's high quality, after a few buy and sell cycles it's provenance might get lost and possibly even mis-identified as a good condition antique! 

 

But thank you, I always wondered if it was kanji pronounced like their name (or as close as) or if they took a pseudonym and signed it with that

[Spartancrest]

I am no expert on kanji - I struggle with the crazy English language! But try these kanji ロバート  Robāto  

I see problems translating surnames - even Japanese surnames can translate to "odd" word groups. 

 

越前住 記内作  = Echizen-Ju, Kinai Saku  But if you put this into google translate it comes out as "Written by Echizen Sumi" 

[ROKUJURO]

Manuel Coden uses real KANJI for a phonetical resemblance of his name.

My first name is related to the German name "Johann", so I could use 洋半  YÔ HAN (funnily, the meaning would be like 'half foreigner' which would fit).
My family name COLLIN could be 光琳  KORIN, so just a phonetical way to write.

For the TOSOGU makers competitions in Japan, I am not sure if a MEI is not even requested. Ask Manuel for that.

[Manuel Coden]

As Jean said I signed with the kanji 古伝 which reads as "Koden" that sounds like my surname and also have a meaning of "old tradition" which fits my style of Muromachi -Early Edo style.

For NBTHK contest you're required to have either a signature or a kao to submit 

[NotANinja]

Thank you Jean and Manuel, that makes sense! I did not know if they were signed with a Japanese pseudonym, and then I wondered if that would be a bit of a faux pas if a westerner gave themselves a Japanese name. Probably thinking far too much into it! 

 

In a fictional universe I suppose mine could be 茶色 for my family name of Brown! Not sure what I'd use for Robert though 

[Manuel Coden]

3 minutes ago, NotANinja said:

Thank you Jean and Manuel, that makes sense! I did not know if they were signed with a Japanese pseudonym, and then I wondered if that would be a bit of a faux pas if a westerner gave themselves a Japanese name. Probably thinking far too much into it! 

 

In a fictional universe I suppose mine could be 茶色 for my family name of Brown! Not sure what I'd use for Robert though 

Traditionally the names are given by the teacher, usually taking one kanji from teacher's name and another new one that carry a specific meaning.

But of course if one has no teacher can choose the one he thinks fits,of course must make sense in Japanese. If in doubt you can just use katakana.

Also normally one signs with his given name,not his surname, mine is a special case cause it just made more sense to use it.

[NotANinja]

1 hour ago, Manuel Coden said:

Traditionally the names are given by the teacher, usually taking one kanji from teacher's name and another new one that carry a specific meaning.

But of course if one has no teacher can choose the one he thinks fits,of course must make sense in Japanese. If in doubt you can just use katakana.

Also normally one signs with his given name,not his surname, mine is a special case cause it just made more sense to use it.

I thought that was the case. I suppose that was more the question I was asking - what do they sign it with when there is no teacher? 

 

I suppose for me then Robato 路馬登 would be more accurate? 

Edited Wednesday at 07:52 PM by NotANinja
Spelling

[Spartancrest]

5 hours ago, NotANinja said:

路馬登 would be more accurate [really?]

Never trust Google to get it right!       what about 名前のない馬    

 

          I'd stick with  ロバート     The kanji strokes are much easier to inscribe as well! 

Edited yesterday at 01:14 AM by Spartancrest
layout

[ROKUJURO]

KATAKANA strokes

[Shugyosha]

A Sharpie? 

[OceanoNox]

18 hours ago, NotANinja said:

I suppose for me then Robato 路馬登 would be more accurate? 

You could choose any kanji with a reading close enough to your name. That's what the student helped me with when I joined a calligraphy club, and I had to carve my own signature stamp. For many non-Asians, it can mean quite a few kanji (mine was 4 for the family name, and 3 for the first name).