NotANinja Posted January 7 Report Posted January 7 Hi all, part 2: The Sad Sword to follow probably tomorrow. Recently aquired this lovely old wakizashi in koshirae and would like some help narrowing it down. Here are its specs: Nagasa: 16"/41cm overall 21"/53cm Sori: 0.35"/9mm Kissaki: 1.18"/30mm Motohaba: 1.08"/27.5mm Sakihaba: 0.86"/22mm Motokasane: 0.25"/6.4mm Sakikasane: 0.16"/4.0mm Can't tell jigane very well, possibly a bit of masame hada but not in great polish. Hamon is absolutely gorgeous and what drew my eye to start with and is a lovely choji koshi-no-hiraita midare all the way along the blade. Sadly boshi is not able to be seen because of surface rust but part of the turnback can be seen so it's definitely there. Nakago is mumei and has one mekugi-ana and looks ubu with some age to it. It has been polished in the past and there are polishers marks under the habaki. Koshirae looks nice but the tsuka has definitely been altered for this blade as there's 2 holes for the pegs. It's filthy so I'd like some advice on cleaning the tsuka if that's possible at all. I have no idea what the menuki are supposed to be. 1 seppa, and the tsuba, fuchi and kashira look like a matching simple iron (armourers?) set. Saya is in okay condition, not split which is good bit is missing the kozuka but that's normal I think. Paid approx £300 for it after fees. I saw in connoisseurs some similarities between this and some koto bizen blades but I do not think it is that old, but possibly curca 1750 ish +/- 50yrs? Please let me know your thoughts I am very excited to find out more! Quote
eternal_newbie Posted January 7 Report Posted January 7 Interesting hamon, looks like kobushigata-choji (fist-shaped cloves), or possibly kani-no-tsume (crab claw), depending on how well the hadori matches the underlying hardening (assuming there is any underlying hardening and the hamon wasn't just put on for appearances' sake). This could suggest the Kunisuke line in Shinto times for kobushigata, or Sue-Bizen (or later) for kani-no-tsume. Or, of course, someone more recent doing an utsushi of one of those styles. Quote
ChrisW Posted January 7 Report Posted January 7 5 hours ago, Brian said: Fittings possibly Satsuma Rebellion? Agreed on this. The crude ito, the iron-hardware-esque menuki, simple tsuba point towards possibly Satsuma Rebellion mounts. Quote
NotANinja Posted January 7 Author Report Posted January 7 6 hours ago, Brian said: Fittings possibly Satsuma Rebellion? Thank you Brian! I think the blade is older however what do you think? And any advice as to cleaning the grime from the samegawa or just keep it as is? Quote
Scogg Posted January 7 Report Posted January 7 Perhaps the blade is older than the Satsuma Rebellion. My non-expert collectors guess; I would say no earlier than shinto period. The hamon, sugata, and nakago, give me a strong shinto to shinshinto impression. Other opinions may vary... Take mine with a grain of salt. -Sam 1 Quote
NotANinja Posted January 7 Author Report Posted January 7 23 minutes ago, Scogg said: Perhaps the blade is older than the Satsuma Rebellion. My non-expert collectors guess; I would say no earlier than shinto period. The hamon, sugata, and nakago, give me a strong shinto to shinshinto impression. Other opinions may vary... Take mine with a grain of salt. -Sam Hi Sam, I would agree with you there. Although unsigned, the blade to me doesn't give off any inclinations of being shortened, but there is some age there with the patination imo, and it has been polished possibly more than once with how much hamachi there isn't. I'd put my money on 1750 ish but don't know enough for any more info then that. Would love to hear opinions on school and smith from the many more knowledgeable people on this site! 1 Quote
ROKUJURO Posted January 7 Report Posted January 7 Rob, usually there is no patination involved in swords. The patina builds up on the NAKAGO by time and use. This blade has a drilled MEKUGI-ANA. The even red rust on the NAKAGO is not deep, and the polish on the blade is not "profound" so I cannot see HADA (at least not with these images). It was stored in a damp place and thus damaged by recent (heavy) rust. My guess would also be very late EDO JIDAI, but in the end, it is quality that counts, and preservation condition. Age by itself does not hold much value. Quote
NotANinja Posted January 7 Author Report Posted January 7 28 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said: Rob, usually there is no patination involved in swords. The patina builds up on the NAKAGO by time and use. This blade has a drilled MEKUGI-ANA. The even red rust on the NAKAGO is not deep, and the polish on the blade is not "profound" so I cannot see HADA (at least not with these images). It was stored in a damp place and thus damaged by recent (heavy) rust. My guess would also be very late EDO JIDAI, but in the end, it is quality that counts, and preservation condition. Age itself does not hold much value. Hi Jean, Thank you for your response! Maybe patination was the wrong word, what I meant was that the nakago is dark not including the newer red rust from it's unfortunate past storage. Hada is very difficult to see even in person but I haven't had a sunny day here yet and I only received it yet. Hopefully the weather will be kind to me tomorrow. As far as value goes that does not matter to me, I buy the swords that I like and endevour to eventually restore every single one for preservations sake alone 1 Quote
NotANinja Posted January 7 Author Report Posted January 7 2 hours ago, ROKUJURO said: Rob, usually there is no patination involved in swords. The patina builds up on the NAKAGO by time and use. This blade has a drilled MEKUGI-ANA. The even red rust on the NAKAGO is not deep, and the polish on the blade is not "profound" so I cannot see HADA (at least not with these images). It was stored in a damp place and thus damaged by recent (heavy) rust. My guess would also be very late EDO JIDAI, but in the end, it is quality that counts, and preservation condition. Age itself does not hold much value. Also, apologies but what do you mean by Edo Jidai? I am still quite new to this, thank you. Quote
ROKUJURO Posted January 7 Report Posted January 7 EDO JIDAI = EDO era/period. There are different opinions on the span of time, some say 1596 to 1876 (or 1868), other see the start with KEICHÔ era (1614). In literature, you may also find 1600/1603 to 1868 or 1876 (HAITÔREI, the end of the SAMURAI era) Quote
klee Posted January 7 Report Posted January 7 @NotANinja Time periods specifically for nihonto can be a little confusing at first since they often dont match the historical time periods. The koto/shinto division is one of them but I ve always stuck with 1600. Historicaly , the nanbokucho perio 1336 - 1392 viewed as a period WITHIN the Muromachi period. ( 1392 - 1573 ) This is very important to avoid mixing up bc the Nanbokucho period is a very specific and separate era in terms of Nihonto. In Nihonto , the Muromachi spans from 1392 - 1600 but this is in direct conflict with historical timelines since the Muromachi period techinically ended in 1573 with Nobunaga dissolving the Ashikaga shogunate and doesnt include the Azuchi Momoyama period. It s very easy to be confused at first with all the discrepancies so I would just strictly stick with the established Nihonto timelines. 3 Quote
Rivkin Posted January 7 Report Posted January 7 I would guess its a type of hamon popularized I guess by Tatara Nagayuki around Kambun. Quite likely from the same period or slightly later. 2 Quote
NotANinja Posted January 8 Author Report Posted January 8 11 hours ago, ROKUJURO said: EDO JIDAI = EDO era/period. There are different opinions on the span of time, some say 1596 to 1876 (or 1868), other see the start with KEICHÔ era (1614). In literature, you may also find 1600/1603 to 1868 or 1876 (HAITÔREI, the end of the SAMURAI era) Ah thank you, wasn't sure what Jidai meant! Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.