Kinko tsuba……”Springtime”

[Matsunoki]

With many thanks to @SteveM for the translation. (Hosono Sozaemon Masamori)

A recent acquisition…..slightly earlier than I first thought….

Katana sized (just about) @ 7.5 cm

[Jesta]

That’s a beautiful piece. Really lovely. 

[Jake6500]

Wowww that is a breathtaking piece! I would not have guessed such an early date based on the style, an artist truly ahead of their time!

[Curran]

7 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

With many thanks to @SteveM for the translation. (Hosono Sozaemon Masamori)

A recent acquisition…..slightly earlier than I first thought….

Katana sized (just about) @ 7.5 cm

 

 

Wow! That is earlier than I would have thought for some of the techniques used on the tsuba.

 

Kinda like seeing a Boeing Jet and thinking it is 1969, only to learn the image is from 1869....

   I am aware of some Kaga area Abumi artisans transferring some of their style of workmanship to tsuba around the 1650-1700 era,

But I have to admit that I would have dated this tsuba closer to 1800.

 

 

 

[zanilu]

Me too Curran.

 

Looking at it I would have guessed mid to late Edo, but the style of the inaly reminds me of some Kaga Zogan works. The main lines of artist doing that kind of work in Kaga domain, i.e. the Tsuji and Katsuji lines, first generations where active just before 1700 (https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=153423)  so...

 

Can I suggest to look for referenced signature of the artist for comparison? 

Just to dismiss the gimei hypothesis. Or look for referenced works from him to see if this tsuba has similarities with it?

 

Very nice piece anyway. 

 

Regards

Luca

[Matsunoki]

28 minutes ago, zanilu said:

Can I suggest to look for referenced signature of the artist for comparison

Luca, many thanks for looking and commenting.

To be honest….i don’t know where to look for a referenced authenticated mei. 

However a quick dip into it suggests that this artists mei varies quite a lot (possibly over a very long career) and I have found several other pieces that compare very favourably (mei and workmanship)…..but not officially authenticated.

…..but really I don’t mind either way….artistry and quality are pleasing in my humble opinion. Whoever made it knew his stuff🙂

If anyone has easy access to anything relevant that would shed some light I’d be grateful!

 

 

[Curran]

42 minutes ago, zanilu said:

Me too Curran.

 

Looking at it I would have guessed mid to late Edo, but the style of the inaly reminds me of some Kaga Zogan works. The main lines of artist doing that kind of work in Kaga domain, i.e. the Tsuji and Katsuji lines, first generations where active just before 1700 (https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=153423)  so...

 

Can I suggest to look for referenced signature of the artist for comparison? 

Just to dismiss the gimei hypothesis. Or look for referenced works from him to see if this tsuba has similarities with it?

 

Very nice piece anyway. 

 

Regards

Luca

 

We have Goto Kenjo and others going up from Edo over to visit the Maeda.

We also have abumi workers form there sort of teaching the reverse technique to fittings makers. 

Quite the artistic commune back in the day.

 

My thoughts were more... what artists hitched a ride to the art commune back in the day?

Colin's tsuba has the feel of someone familiar with Chinese painting style or screenwork, and the placement and zogan from Kaga works starting sometime in the 1600s.

My thought is that there is at least a year or two there where he must have been up near Kanazawa and learned a trick, ... or five...

 

Just it feels like a lot of Kaga influence in this.

Given the supposed production period of the artist, gotta think something is missing from his bio.

[zanilu]

1 hour ago, Curran said:

We have Goto Kenjo and others going up from Edo over to visit the Maeda.

We also have abumi workers form there sort of teaching the reverse technique to fittings makers. 

Quite the artistic commune back in the day.

 

My thoughts were more... what artists hitched a ride to the art commune back in the day?

Colin's tsuba has the feel of someone familiar with Chinese painting style or screenwork, and the placement and zogan from Kaga works starting sometime in the 1600s.

My thought is that there is at least a year or two there where he must have been up near Kanazawa and learned a trick, ... or five...

 

Just it feels like a lot of Kaga influence in this.

Given the supposed production period of the artist, gotta think something is missing from his bio.

 

What I wanted to say is that the tecqniques where already there pre 1700, how the Masampri in question,  acquired them is the mystery. A mystery that  will probably remain unsolved. This is what I tried to say but my English is not up to the task and the result was quite convoluted... 

 

Regards 

Luca

 

[Curran]

11 minutes ago, zanilu said:

 

What I wanted to say is that the tecqniques where already there pre 1700, how the Masampri in question,  acquired them is the mystery. A mystery that  will probably remain unsolved. This is what I tried to say but my English is not up to the task and the result was quite convoluted... 

 

Regards 

Luca

 

 

Eh, magari.   

You have no idea how much my Italian has declined in the last 35 years.

Even then, if my Italian or Japanese were ever as good as your English???  Non ci credo.

[zanilu]

Credici

[Exclus1ve]

I really like the transfer of colors, spring really feels! Good work, thanks for sharing.

Edited Tuesday at 11:28 PM by Exclus1ve

[Charlie C]

A beautiful piece! 細野政守 is famous for his 平象嵌 technique, but most of his work seems to focus on landscape scenery and folk stories. I would double check the signature before jumping into any conclusions, but this is a beautiful piece no doubt.

[Charlie C]

4 hours ago, Curran said:

 

We have Goto Kenjo and others going up from Edo over to visit the Maeda.

We also have abumi workers form there sort of teaching the reverse technique to fittings makers. 

Quite the artistic commune back in the day.

 

My thoughts were more... what artists hitched a ride to the art commune back in the day?

Colin's tsuba has the feel of someone familiar with Chinese painting style or screenwork, and the placement and zogan from Kaga works starting sometime in the 1600s.

My thought is that there is at least a year or two there where he must have been up near Kanazawa and learned a trick, ... or five...

 

Just it feels like a lot of Kaga influence in this.

Given the supposed production period of the artist, gotta think something is missing from his bio.

An interesting hypothesis - the first member of the Kaga Goto who applied 平象嵌 onto tosogu seems to be 後藤演乗, who was alive in the same era as 政守. However I wouldn't be surprised if they had no connection at all, 平象嵌 as a technique had entered the Kyoto area for at least hundreds of years and it would be quite reasonable to conjecture that 政守 learnt this from some local workers whose names are lost now.

 

[Robert S]

4 hours ago, Curran said:

 

Colin's tsuba has the feel of someone familiar with Chinese painting style or screenwork

I had that same thought.  It really is an outstanding example of translating traditional chinese inflected painting styles to metal, which does speak to the sort of ferment of artistic cross-fertilization which can possibly be linked to a specific time and place,

[Charlie C]

7 hours ago, Curran said:

Colin's tsuba has the feel of someone familiar with Chinese painting style or screenwork

 

2 hours ago, Robert S said:

I had that same thought.  It really is an outstanding example of translating traditional chinese inflected painting styles to metal, which does speak to the sort of ferment of artistic cross-fertilization which can possibly be linked to a specific time and place,

There was a little bit of Chinese style in all tosogu styles. The God of tosogu, 後藤祐乗, was influenced by his friend 狩野正信, and Chinese paintings influenced 狩野's style, whose major patron 足利義満 was a huge fan of Chinese art. In the Edo era, tosogu masters often collaborated with painters, and these painters could also receive direct/indirect influence from Chinese artists. For example, 一宮長常's collaborator 円山応擧, 大月光興's collaborator 岸駒, and 石黒政常 all received direct influence from the Chinese painter 沈南蘋. 

[Matsunoki]

5 hours ago, Charlie C said:

There was a little bit of Chinese style in all tosogu styles. The God of tosogu, 後藤祐乗, was influenced by his friend 狩野正信, and Chinese paintings influenced 狩野's style, whose major patron 足利義満 was a huge fan of Chinese art. In the Edo era, tosogu masters often collaborated with painters, and these painters could also receive direct/indirect influence from Chinese artists. For example, 一宮長常's collaborator 円山応擧, 大月光興's collaborator 岸駒, and 石黒政常 all received direct influence from the Chinese painter 沈南蘋. 

Charlie, thank you so much for your time and comments.

You obviously “know your stuff” but it would help no end (for the many of us that cannot read Kanji) if you actually used English throughout. Newbies and the “kanji blind” (like me) stand no chance of fully grasping the information and opinions that you kindly provide. No offence intended, and thanks again.

 

[eternal_newbie]

 

26 minutes ago, Matsunoki said:

Newbies and the “kanji blind” (like me) stand no chance of fully grasping the information

 

With links for additional information as there are a whole lot of big names in those four sentences:

 

There was a little bit of Chinese style in all tosogu styles. The God of tosogu, Gotō Yūjō, was influenced by his friend Kanō Masanobu, and Chinese paintings influenced Kano's style, whose major patron Ashikaga Yoshimitsu was a huge fan of Chinese art. In the Edo era, tosogu masters often collaborated with painters, and these painters could also receive direct/indirect influence from Chinese artists. For example, Ichinomiya Nagatsune's collaborator Maruyama Ōkyo, Ōtsuki Mitsuoki's collaborator Kishi Ganku, and Ishiguro Masatsune all received direct influence from the Chinese painter Shen Quan.

[Charlie C]

10 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

Charlie, thank you so much for your time and comments.

You obviously “know your stuff” but it would help no end (for the many of us that cannot read Kanji) if you actually used English throughout. Newbies and the “kanji blind” (like me) stand no chance of fully grasping the information and opinions that you kindly provide. No offence intended, and thanks again.

 

Thanks for your opinions and no offence taken. I believe that one has to read some basic kanji, at least the biggest big names here, to really enjoy collecting tosogu. As you mentioned in another post, understanding determines collection quality. I wouldn't imagine collecting Victorian era jewels without reading basic English. People are spoiled to think that English is a default for everyone and ignore that the pronunciation and their original characters are not the same thing at all for many non-roman languages.

 

But I will add a corresponding English wiki, like good Rohan did, next time. Thanks for your feedback.

[Robert S]

I totally agree that Chinese influence is everywhere in Japanese art.  However so much of the art found within the nihonto world reflects the Japanese adaptation of that Chinese influence over 500 to 1000 years, which created an indigenous style.  Wabi-sabi aesthetics are a particularly extreme example of this - I don't know of any close parallel in Chinese art. 

 

This particular tsuba, however, is much more a reflection of a purer Chinese style.  Someone was re-examining Chinese art - for instance, as Charlie suggests, Kishi Ganku, and Ishiguro Masatsune receiving direct influence from the Chinese painter Shen Quan.

[MauroP]

For reference (from Signatures of Japanese Sword Fittings Artists by Markus Sesko).

[Matsunoki]

16 hours ago, MauroP said:

For reference (from Signatures of Japanese Sword Fittings Artists by Markus Sesko).

Thanks Mauro.

It was Ford that said his signatures varied quite a bit over a long career (70 years from memory) and what you show does rather confirm that. To my eyes there are sufficient similarities to mine to increase the chances that it is OK. Certainly the workmanship and artistry are of a high standard…..imo far higher than much of his “rural life” outputs. Thanks again.