did NOT expect to be asking this…

[jjspence1986]

Hello Everyone

 

So I am absolutely new to any semblance of sword collecting and honestly did not expect to be asking for help, but this hobby is very intense and confusing!  

 

I was helping my wife’s uncle clean out his recently passed father’s condo, and found a stash of rifles and a sword in the vent above his furnace.  I know just enough to know I wasnt supposed to clean it and as soon as I drew it out of the scabbard, it has an amazingly luxurious feel to it that most stamped weapons just dont have.  Ive taken it to 3 shops, two which said it was fake but tried to to buy it, and one that directed me online…so here i am.  

 

Anyways, kindly dont beat me up too bad for asking a stupid question, but if anyone could help me id this and tell me if i need to return it to some family or something id appreciate it.  

 

Thank you in advance, and ill accommodate any picture requests as best i can.  

 

happy turkey day everyone!

 

jeffrey s

 

[Ray Singer]

The inscription is Hizen (no) kuni Tadayoshi. You can research at the website below. 

 

Hizento.com 

 

Irrespective of the inscription, it is an authentic antique Japanese sword 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hello Jeffrey, welcome to the forum and congratulations on the find. That's a rather nice looking Type 98 Shin Gunto, the blade looks to be Nihonto but in this case likely bears a false signature (Gimei) of Hizen Kuni Tadayoshi. 

[jjspence1986]

Is a shin gunto one of the ones that is supposed to have serial numbers?  Because this does not.  Only markings are the ones I showed.  How does one ascertain a real from fake signature ?  

 

I mean, it looks insanely similar to others from that sword creator…

 

and thank you Mr Singer, I will read that tonight!

 

jeffrey s

 

 

[jjspence1986]

regardless, not something i can return to thebfamily i take it?  i was hoping the signature would tell me who they were.

 

jjs

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hizen Tadayoshi has a particular trait of signing Tachi Mei on Katana, you will note your example is signed on the incorrect side for a long sword. You will learn a great deal about Hizen smiths from that website Ray linked in a short order of time. 

 

Another useful reference can be found here: https://www.sho-shin.com/shinto-hizen.html 

[Ray Singer]

This type of mei only refers to the swordsmith and where he worked (not a documentation of the provenance and indicate past ownership). Unless you have a surrender tag attached, it is unlikely that you would be able to trace back. 

[jjspence1986]

Thank you both kindly, I have some new stuff to research :).  I read somewhere that they made the ‘zen’ symbol differently to prevent counterfeits, but was unaware theyd sign a particular side.  Crazy how intelligent they were back then.

[John C]

Jeffrey:

Some additional information about the sword. It is missing the wrap (ito) on the handle (tsuka) and the flower shaped ornamental elements on the handle that assist with grip (menuki), however it's still a nice rig. And to explain a little about fake signatures, it is VERY common and should not detract from it being a piece of WW2 history. It is entirely possible that someone took his family blade (or a donated blade) and put military fittings on it. I wouldn't sell it until you settle into some research and get more details. 

John C.

p.s. The handle wrap and menuki can be replaced in order to make it present well, if that's what you choose to do.

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Jeffrey,

Look here: https://nbthk-ab2.org/sword-characteristics/  for a brochure on care and handling; you should read it. If you'd like answers to a bunch of questions with one phone call, feel free to ring me up. 218-340-1001 in central time. I'm not an authority but I was where you are today 40 years ago and I won't ask you to sell the sword to me.

Cheers, Grey

[jjspence1986]

Thank you, I will keep that in mind when I get stuck!  Learning VERY quickly that this may not be a hobby my 6 and 4 year old can be awake for lol.  They already put a screeching halt to coin collecting and firearm deals, but they learned some gun safety and to slow down and watch a bit.  It’s strange that the gimei thing is so accepted and recognized, I wonder how many ancestral swords there really are?

 

jeffrey s

Edited yesterday at 01:36 AM by jjspence1986

[Bruce Pennington]

Jeffrey,

Congrats on the great find and welcome to the hobby!

 

Go through Ohmura's great site to learn about WWII swords: WWII Gunto (military sword) Parts and Names

You can click on the "Table of Contents" on that page and find all the Army and Navy, officer and NCO swords of the war and how they look.

[Jacques]

Mei (signature) is fake for sure but i can't say without having the sword in hands if it's a true nihontöt or a gunto (I do not have the power of divination).